Can a referendum be valid if won on lies?

Good article. I looked to see if the Guardian was on sale at the supermarket yet (as the S.O. is buying it from now on). But it was nowhere to be seen. So every newspaper, apart from the Mirror, was pro brexit.

For the angry people, Dominic Lawson says this:

"If you wanted to convulse the country with rioting on a revolutionary scale, to cause a lethal rupture between the governing class and the governed and even to provide the conditions for the rise of 21st-century fascism across Europe, here’s what you do.

After a referendum in which an unprecedented number of voters took part, and in which well over a million more people voted for change than for the status quo on our membership of the EU, you declare that the decision cannot be allowed to stand, chiefly on the grounds that the people were too stupid to know what was good either for themselves or for the country."

Tegan, I always look on that as a sign it has sold out!

Bags, how do you explain that that is exactly what Ukip would have done, and it was a Ukipper who set up the petition on the second referendum as it was thought they would lose.
Farage was the one to say with a 48 - 52% vote he would call for a second referendum.

Dominic Lawson? Who's he?

Nigel Lawson's son.

Exactly, daphne. The father who lives in France but was one of the leading voices for Brexit.
Did you know Dominic Lawson blamed the result of the referendum on the legalisation of same-sex marriage?

@Tegan

I wouldn't say the Guardian was pro-Brexit, although some of its articles expressed reservations. Strangely enough, the Mail on Sunday, which has a different editor from the weekly DM, came out as pro-Remain.

I read that article from Carole Cadwalladr as regretting BREXIT, but trying to move on. Isn't that what Leavers keep telling Remainers to do?

I'm still angry about it all, but getting over the shock. I think that it's important that we're not so busy being indignant and outraged that we let a new more right-wing government get away with its own agenda. We need to keep an eye on what's happening in Parliament, because it's business as usual for them and they're voting on laws while we're all distracted by the referendum.

dj,

No, I didn't . How does he work that one out?

That's what I've been saying on other threads, daphne.
Fortunately they did not get the sell-off of the Land Registry through last week.

A study of newspaper front pages during the EU campaign showed that The Guardian was the most biased in favour of Remain and The Exoressed most biassed in favour of Leave. Theonly unbiassed newspaper was the "i" which is an excellent, very well balanced paper and terrific value for money.

ThatBags, re your post at 8.51- from Dominic Lawson (brother of Nigella no?) - is probably tragically right. Despite Farage having said beforehand that a 48/52 result would have to require a second referendum- the massive rise in racial attacks etc, shows clearly that the extreme right of UKIP, and groups like Britain First and the EDL - would go absolutely berserk and do everything they can to prove Enoch Powell right.

And it is blackmail- and it is dreadul and tragic- and such a huge mess and a total disaster. That we can agree with.

The trouble with "I" is that it no longer has a headline grabbing newspaper in shops and on the high street. And, even before that we had to order it from our local newsagents as he didn't sell enough to order them in. I'm still astounded that one tabloid used a picture of the Queen on the front page pre referendum to further the leave cause.I agree daphnedill. I do need to move on (certainly need to emotionally). Still astounded that people have such a poor view of politicians that they feel that lying is acceptable.

I have never found it difficult to buy the "i" in a newsagent. Please keep asking for it.

It's noticeable here that the number of I newspapers that Sainsbury stocks is increasing steadily . Unfortunately the pile of Daily Mails is still huge

Apologies..it's the S.O. that buys the newspapers. I thought the Independent was totally online now. He doesn't buy it because he likes to read the sport section in the Telegraph. He's now in the doghouse over that and has cancelled it. The only paper I ever bought was The Observer and stopped doing so when it's price went up again and my pension meant a bit of cost cutting.

I buy the i every day that I teach my grandson, because it's a good size for him to read. I mean the length of articles.
The sports pages are quite good, too, Tegan, but I do not know how they compare to the Telegraph.
My grandson has noticed that his great aunt and uncle buy the Telegraph, so it's better not to talk to them about politics, because they probably do not agree with him.

Whitewave, have you heard any more about the legal side of the referendum?

The Independent is on line; the I is still extant and contains much of the Indy's content. I have never knowingly bought the Torygraph!

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/30/politics-brexit-unlawful-eu-uk

www.migrantvoice.org/home/headlines/see-the-photos-of-my-200616161052

About the Ukip poster.

One of the things that I am left breathless by is the fact that Johnson fooled the entire country in his "support" of Brexit. It was something in which he has never believed. And as result of his overbearing vanity and ambition, he has left behind a country on the edge of a nervous breakdown.

Indeed Whitewave- I just don't know what I would do or say if I met him- but it wouldn't be pretty

In the meantime, a very sad video of why people voted the way they did in Doncaster. You have to feel massive sympathy for them, and yet know that what they are suffering and the protest vote has nothing to do with the EU- but with the way they have been treated by successive UK Governments:

www.facebook.com/cheryl.warren1/posts/10210285140744493

I know it is futile and infantile- but I wish I had the IT skills to take the video of that young weather forecaster who was hit by a huge fish - and replace her with BoJO. Childish but it would make me feel better. Can anyone here try- come on- show us your talent.

In the meantime today:

The Referendum held on 23 June was an exercise to obtain the views of UK citizens, the majority of whom expressed a desire to leave the EU. But the decision to trigger Article 50 of the Treaty of European Union, the legal process for withdrawal from the EU, rests with the representatives of the people under the UK Constitution.

The Government however, has suggested that it has sufficient legal authority. Mishcon de Reya has been in correspondence with the Government lawyers since 27 June 2016 on behalf of its clients to seek assurances that the Government will uphold the UK constitution and protect the sovereignty of Parliament in invoking Article 50.

If the correct constitutional process of parliamentary scrutiny and approval is not followed then the notice to withdraw from the EU would be unlawful, negatively impacting the withdrawal negotiations and our future political and economic relationships with the EU and its 27 Member States, and open to legal challenge. This legal action seeks to ensure that the Article 50 notification process is lawful.

Full article here

www.mishcon.com/news/firm_news/article_50_process_on_brexit_faces_legal_challenge_to_ensure_parliamentary_involvement_07_2016#.V3lRaW3BuTM.facebook

I am hoping Andrea Leadsom has just lost her place in the race for the Tory leadership. She has said that if she wins she will have Farage on the team to negotiate.
I hope Tories are not going for that.