A new Centre party?

No I mean as negotiations start, they need a plan for the future.

A vote on Brexit by a centre left cabinet isn't needed, we all know what the result would be.

The point is, that time for personal ambition, and vanity is over. We know where that gets us - chaos. A shadow cabinet of the centre left. With a vote on the leader. A vote on all the proposed policies. A vote on Brexit. By that the vote by MPs I mean, we've had enough of referendums, because until we can be clear that people know exactly what they are voting for it is proven a recipe for chaos.

Before we even get to the leader we need to explore whether it is a runner.

Yes but we need something more than that which is why I think Lucas's idea should be given some traction. How can it be right that the vast majority of the population aren't represented?

Wonder who Lucas thinks should lead a coalition

The Libs will gain from the mess the Tory and Labour Party are in .

Yesterday Tim Farron, leader of the Liberal Democrats addressed a peacefil demonstration of 50,000 people in Parliament Square but that was barely mentioned in the media.,

Tim was democratically elected by the party members last year and gave strong leadership during the Remain campaign. The LibDems are the party most united for Remain and if we are to be dragged out of the EU by the 37% of the electorate who voted leave, will campaign to rejoin,

Lucas is calling for a coalition of centre left parties. What else can 2/3rds and probably more like 3/4 of the country do at present - given the tumultuous events? Democracy calls for a general election for the population to give its verdict on what has taken place.
Tory vanities has brought us to this.

My husband did that for six months, daphne.

Peterborough City Council has been Conservative for some time. Labour actually gained seats in the last local election. That area is prime Ukip territory, but so far they've failed to make inroads. It could be because Peterborough itself has changed in character and has people who commute to London every day.

Owen Smith became an MP for Pontypridd in 2010

Forgot to add, it's now strong Tory, because of immigration, which is weird, because Peterborough was built on immigration.

Owen Smith isn't a Blairite.

I remember the wilderness years. We lived in Peterborough for most of that time and had a Labour MP. We were members of the Labour party there. Do not know anyone who lives there now who was a member of the Labour party back then. They've all moved away.

Where are the MI5 spooks when you need them?

Oh nooooo! Told you he pops up when least wanted!

"Who will rid me of this troublesome priest?"

Just read that Blair wants to lead the negotiations with the EU !

Daphne, the problem is anyone who entered parliament before 2007 will be classed a Blairite, this leaves MP's who have been an MP for only less than 10 years. Even those who are not far left are classed a Blairite even though they were not MP's when he was PM

I wish he were gone - he seems to pop up whenever he's least wanted!

I agree with you. Labour needs to come up with solid policies, which might sacrifice 'pure' socialism. Its priority must be to get elected without lying and making unrealistic promises. Is there anybody within the PLP capable of realising that kind of vision?

I am not thinking of Blairism daphne, yes he is toxic now but seems the good done in those years is forgotten . Blair has gone .

Isn't Blairism still a toxic word?

(I agree with you, by the way.)

The only answer is a strong opposition daphne , we did it before by moving to the centre , this wasn't perfect , but it worked . I do know Gordon Brown had to agonise over moving towards the centre but he did it because he put the party first , he accepted this was the only way for labour to gain power, and they did . As did Robin Cook and many others who were to the left but not far left . I asked on another thread if anyone remembers the wilderness years , no replies . Either no or amnesia because anyone who stuck with labour at that time would remember how hard it was to keep fighting

Hmmppphhh! I take your point, ab, but what's to be done? If there is no effective opposition to the Conservatives, they'll just carry on destroying welfare, turning a blind eye to tax evasion, destroying education, and the NHS, privatising/selling everything etc etc. The majority of people have never voted for them, but the majority have no voice.

Right, let's look at this new centre party for labour. Corbyn v Benn . Thry both cannot be The Labour Party. Cannot be New Labour so call them X. Where does the London mayor belong, he didn't want Corbyn campaigning with him. Will he join X. Where do the new labour MP's go, they joined lithe Labour Party now have to choose to leave and join X whilst some remain labour.What about the Welsh Labour Party? Thry split and labour has lost power in the Senydd , There could be more UKIP than Labour or X

On,y one seat in Scotland but the leader and deputy leader now disagree , where do labour members go, with labour or X

I've spoken to my LibDem councilor/parliamentary candidate about the tuition fees fiasco, ab. What he said was that Nick Clegg traded tuition fees for the pupil premium, which I expect you know is worth nearly £1000 a year for every child from a poorer home.

Clegg's argument was that support for university generally went to teenagers from wealthier homes, but pupil premium would go to children from poorer homes.

I don't think it actually works out like that in practice, but I think Clegg had a point. His huge mistake was not to let everybody know his reasoning.

Without the LibDems, the Conservatives have done much more damage to student finance by abolishing means tested bursaries completely, but that seems to have gone under the radar. The Conservatives are now considering abolishing pupil premiums.