A new Centre party?

Anyway, niggly, why are you trying once again to turn a thread about party alignement into a rant about Remainers?

@niggly

Sod optimism, hope and enthusiasm. I was just interested in the truth rather than attempts to pull the wool over my eyes and appeals to my 'emotions' with empty slogans such as 'take back control'.

Hope and enthusiasm? Boris gave that with the figure which would go to the NHS on his bus , many believed the lie

Both sides used dirty tricks, just like all elections! Maybe less bullying, hectoring, and being downright frightening, and instead, a message of optimism, hope and enthusiasm, and things could have gone very differently! Appalling arrogant behaviour by certain celebrities, and again things could have been different. Less name calling would have been a bonus! A bit more enthusiasm from Labour would have helped too!!

I'm really not sure, Jess. I know that from my own point of view, I would like to see a new centrist party, because I am very much opposed to what the Conservatives have been doing, but I can't really agree with Momentum/Corbyn either. The trouble is that, as a LibDem supporter, I've always known that they would never form a government (although it used to be different at local level). I actually feel completely disenfranchised.

On balance, I would prefer a Labour government to a Conservative one. I voted Labour in the last election, but nothing (except perhaps a gun to the head) could ever persuade me to vote Conservative.

A new party on the right would have repercussions for the alignment of existing parties. Traditional Labour voters seem to be voting for Ukip and the Labour Party needs to find out why and to address that. There seems to be some kind of disconnect between the party and its traditional voters. I really don't know enough traditional Labour voters to know why.

My daughter canvassed for Labour during the last election. In the end, Labour gained a seat from the LibDems in the constituency, but she was surprised that some of the people she spoke to had voted LibDem in the past, but intended to vote for Ukip in the election. That seems to indicate that people don't have a clue what they're voting for, because the LibDems and Ukip couldn't be more different on almost all levels. It seems that people reject Labour and Conservative (for whatever reason) and vote for the 'other' as a protest. Part of the problem at the moment, I believe, is that people don't really have an idea what Labour stands for.

I just wonder if people need an alternative to the horrors of a rebranded Ukip.

Can anyone explain to me how setting up a new centre party will help to:
a/ combat the right wing tendencies of the many in the Tory party
b/ combat the extreme right wing tendencies of UKIP, Arron Banks et al. It is the votes of traditional Labour voters that they are winning in many areas.
As far as I can tell there is no apparent threat to the UK from the Left these days? Reds under the beds is so last century.

We need this as well, before any new parties are set up.

www.change.org/p/restore-truthful-politics-create-an-independent-office-to-monitor-political-campaigns?source_location=movement

His statement 'The remain campaign featured fact, fact, fact, fact, fact. It just doesn't work' really frightens me.

So people aren't interested in facts any more? As the campaign continued, that was fairly obvious, as was the employment of people to troll social media.

Democracy? Pah! Not when people are duped.

I am afraid Daphne

In case people have missed it, it's highly likely that a new party is going to be set up on the right. Arron Banks, who bankrolled the Leave campaign, is serious about using his own money to set one up.

This is what he had to say about the Leave campaign strategy:

^Banks has been credited with professionalising Ukip’s referendum push through the Leave.EU campaign. He deployed senior executives and staff from his insurance companies and hired the Washington DC political campaign strategy firm Goddard Gunster on a multimillion-pound fee to sharpen its message.

“It was taking an American-style media approach,” said Banks. “What they said early on was ‘facts don’t work’ and that’s it. The remain campaign featured fact, fact, fact, fact, fact. It just doesn’t work. You have got to connect with people emotionally. It’s the Trump success.”^

Be afraid!

www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/29/leave-donor-plans-new-party-to-replace-ukip-without-farage

Monica I agree with you, those on the right of the Labour Party and in the centre, could form an alliance with the Lib Dems and those on the far left could be a party of permanent protest [Corbyn would like that.]

Governments, however made up, should act in the interests of the most number of people and should, logically, end up as centrist. Whenever a government makes a decision, it will inevitably disadvantage one group. What we've seen, particularly over the last six years, is the same groups of people advantaged and disadvantaged to the extent that the disadvantaged have had enough.

Unfortunately governments don't act in the long-term interest of the country (ie society as a whole), because they're more interested in buying votes from their supporters or those they would like to persuade to support them.

I have found that voters in some other countries are more aware of the interests of the country and political processes. They are more prepared to accept compromises rather than only want what's in it for them.

When casting a single vote in a general election, we are accepting a whole package of policies and, therefore, making compromises. FPTP forces tactical voting on some people, because they opt for the best of two evils. I have never ever agreed with any single party on everything and my vote has never counted anyway. I guess there are many millions of people in the same situation. Democracy as most people seem to understand it is an illusion.

In my ideal scifi world, we would be presented with a list of issues (the economy, ways of financing the NHS, aims of education, laws, need for investment, etc) and we would vote on a scale of 1 to 10. People would need to be informed about consequences from reliable sources. The results would be collated and the government's role would be to balance all the various opinions. There would also need to be safety nets to protect minorities and to ensure the law is upheld. There would be no need for political parties.

Ahem! I thought this thread was about the formation of a centrist party, not another opportunity to have a moan about the referendum.

Niggle, could it be because of the blatant lies put forward to gain votes?

Why is it that when a referendum doesn't go the way certain people want, it 'isnt fair' If that same referendum were to go the way certain people want, with exactly the same reversed result, then it's perfectly fair!!!!! How curious is that?!!!!

"I supported electoral reform such as replacing the first past the post system with the Single Transferable Vote (STV) or Alternative Vote (AV) I because I would like to see some of the smaller parties grow."

That was another referendum lost to lies: "PR isn't fair because some peoples votes are counted twice and others aren't."

And this is what we will get if some labour MP's form a new party Luckygirl

But what we do not want above all else is a sort of Blairite party.

I cannot envisage a Labour/LibDem/Green alliance. Any superficial similarity between their aims is rent asunder by their entirely different approaches to solving these common problems that arise from the highly divergent underlying philosophies.

The in-fighting that would follow such a re-alignment would make the current shenanigans in the labour party look like a toddler's tantrum.

I can, however, see an alighment between more right wing disenchanted labour MP's and the LibDems, similar to the merging with the SDP, and I suspect it will only arise by the formation, first of a party which is a version of New Labour, which then allies its self to them.

Well something has to happen - we cant go on as we are.

daphne I would support that alliance too.

On another thread I just posted that I supported electoral reform such as replacing the first past the post system with the Single Transferable Vote (STV) or Alternative Vote (AV) I because I would like to see some of the smaller parties grow.

I don't think the current two party system is good for the UK. Other countries manage with coalitions and we might see so real change if there was a coalition of certain parties, or a breakaway new party. It pains me to say that as a life long Labour voter, the party needs to get its act together. I definitely think there's a place now for a new party.

It could be very effective as we go forward into the uncharted waters we now face.

PS. Should also have written that PR (or AV) would probably see the resurgence of the LibDems. I, for one, would be happy with a Labour/LibDem/Green alliance, because they all have something I could support.

@Monica

Germany has had coalition governments since the end of WW2. Merkel herself is currently the leader of a CDU/CSU/SPD coalition. Germany isn't doing too badly and their politicians seem to behave like mature adults.

Both the Labour and Conservative Parties in the UK have been an alliance of different political viewpoints.

I read about this a few weeks ago, before the outcome of the referendum was known. It will be interesting to see what his main attraction will be without UKIP's main justification for existence, so the sting will be taken out of its tail. It will be a far right party and I wonder if Labour voters will find it appealing. Somehow I doubt it, because he won't deliver what disenchanted Labour supporters want.