As the hysterical left weep into their lattes...

dd your post of 11.03.57 is ridiculous.

Is neuroticism creeping into this thread?

maddyone I will second that!

Many years ago when my children were at school there were sayings to counteract childish spite like:

"What you say is what you are"

And

"When you point a finger at someone else it means you are pointing more at yourself"

We are supposed to be the grown ups!

I do take it with a pinch of salt. Considering Libby Purves has spent her whole life connected to the theatre and is one of the 'elite' herself, I think it's grossly hypocritical.

I like Europe and I like to think of us as part of Europe. I think of myself as European.

I'm not racist. I don't want to stop people coming into this country. We have always had immigrants and over time as they integrate it makes the country more diverse and interesting.

I voted Leave for many reasons. One of these reasons was the immigration issue; I think the sheer numbers and potential numbers makes our situation in the UK untenable. We are a relatively small island and need to have some control/selection mechanism which allows people to come in to fill jobs and balance our economy. I doubt if Mr Cameron's deal achieved much at all as I believe most people who have come in from Europe are workers - and very good workers at that. On an Australian points system these people would still come in if their skills were needed but we would be able to control the numbers.

My main and overriding issue is the EU State - the aim seems to be to grow exponentially. What began as a small number of countries working together for the good of all has developed into an unwieldy beast where individual countries have lost control, identity and self respect e.g Greece. I am sure we're all aware of Design by Committee and I think this sums up the EU.

I thought long and hard about my vote and knew there would be many difficulties. In fact, as is common in these matters, many threatened problems will dissolve. We were threatened with consequences if we didn't go into the Euro - in fact the £ thrived. We held our breath as we came into this century because potentially all computer systems would fail. Did anything happen? I don't think so.

The biggest problem at the moment is the continual backlash and argument. Please can we just knuckle down and get on with it.

The original post linked to an article written by a journalist. Take it with a pinch of salt.

It's true that the reaction from many of the Remainers towards the Leavers has been ugly, but Libby P doesn't seem to allow for initial shock. It's just an article. Written to fill a newspaper.

Millbrook.Please stay. I was on the phone for an hour last night speaking to my daughter; she's appalled at what is happening in this country.I don't know how people can sleep at night who voted leave knowing that it could result in their children losing their jobs. Keep thinking of the John Lennon song....

@Elegran

I had forgotten you'd voted Remain - I didn't keep a tally.

Believe it or not, I would like to see a better way, too.

I've hated the way society has been drifting over the last few years and my fear is that this way has now been endorsed.

I think those who are hoping for some kind of bloodless revolution are going to be very disappointed. I think we're going to see more of the same, but turbo charged and with even less money to go round.

I'm aware, by the way, that at least one of my acquaintances who considers himself a revolutionary voted for Leave, because he sees it as the first stage as overthrowing the ruling classes. Yeah well! I can't see him pulling together any more than Britain First or the EDL. Meanwhile, an awful lot of people are going to have their lives changed, while the despised elite continue to rub their hands in glee.

Cherrytree, I think the worst thing Boris has done today - so far - is to come out of his house and announce that project fear is over, thereby dismissing 50% of the population.
Some of us are still very afraid and getting more so with every utterance from Brexit.

It does seem we're damned if we do, and damned if we don't though doesn't it.
I mean (not a thread about a thread) the screams of abuse at criticism of the thinking (or lack of it) and the misguided motivation behind MUCH of the LEAVE voting. Misguided motivation connived at by Farage. Much spleen was vented at the aspersions being cast at LEAVE voters on the thread which has now been deleted but can still be read on other threads . Now Libby Purves is saying (I think) that there is a danger of deflecting the blame from the real culprits -the government and politicians/bureaucrats here and in Europe - and that some of our more articulate, and usually metropolitan literati/artystocracy are bleating rather than facing up to the political consequences.
Or as the hashtag says
#blameCameronnotyourGran

daphnedill why don't you find another outlet for your anger? I think it's time to let it go. It's beginning to sound unhealthy.

The country itself hasn't really changed.

Ludicrous to suggest that only lefties voted Remain. Yes some lefties did but I for one am not a leftie, far from it. Sure not all those who voted Brexit are not racists but I'm pretty sure all racists who voted did vote exit. My belief is that the Brexit campaign was well run and managed to grab a few false headlines (control of immigration, £350 million etc) which have already been denied and dumped. If you bought a car and the next day it would only go half as fast as the advertised speed you would be pretty annoyed and have rights to recourse. The only recourse against politicians is to sack them eventually, but they keep all their generous pensions and benefits. I live in Europe but have a non EU wife and a British child but our continuing ability to live where we do is under severe threat. My pension income has already fallen considerably and may continue to do so. the Brexit campaign won but there is now a huge vacuum and it seems it won't be resolved for many months. Investment in new projects and products will be on hold. Jobs will be lost. Trade deals will take time to negotiate and may be on bad terms; there are only 20 qualified trade deal negotiators in the whole of the UK. Times will be interesting to say the least; I venture to suggest that there will be few beneficiaries. Some will suffer greatly, and it appears that some will take great pleasure from that, especially the racists.

How do you suggest we 'pull together' Synonomous?

Daphne, the one white man in the front was hidden by the wording.

DJ "Tell me about this 'better' way." I voted to remain, remember? You need someone who knows all about that "better" type of horticulture, not me. It was the leave campaigners who advocated a "better" way.

I just want people to stop fighting and destroying the crops, and get on with cultivating the garden. Don't beat MY ears please, for preferring that you cease beating other people's.

My dad was at Dunkirk, daphne.
I wonder how many boats are coming over here now with asylum seekers, having been allowed to leave by the Calais burghers.

Oh dear Cherrytree! Is that the first time you've seen stirring up on this thread? The OP was divisive from the start.

@Joelsnan

OK! Point taken! Substitute that for xenophobia (makes you wonder why Farage produced that poster).

well said Synonymous

WHAT A LOT OF NASTY PEOPLE!

God rot her

You are Deliberately stirring up fear.

@Elegran

Can you honestly see any government doing that? There has been absolutely nothing to stop them over the last few decades, but we've seen a gradual drift to finance and the South East. Places such as Liverpool had massive funding from the EU for regeneration after Howe suggested to Thatcher suggested it should be allowed to decline.

I would love to see a government investing in the North, housing and infrastructure, but it's even less likely now that any foreign investment will find its way to the UK.

The people now fighting to be PM have a history of not showing any interest in the poor.

Being in this country at present must be like it was in Iceland when they experienced a similar kind of seismic shift and at that point nobody there knew how things were going to pan out either.

And no I don't think it would have been like this if remain had won since it would generally have been expected to be 'the same old, same old'. Granted that some of us had different expectations of what would happen next but little would have come as a surprise.

It is understandable that there is so much angst at present since so many people have never had experience of life outside the EU. They have never known what it is like to live in a proper democracy because this has been deliberately and systematically eroded over the years.

Iceland has emerged stronger and more united than ever before and so can the UK if we all pull together.
We can certainly do this too if we focus on the future and show a united front rather than looking like a pushover to the rest of the world.

Daphnedill Europeans are the same race as Brits, how then can we be racist in this instance?

"God rot her"! Talk about venom!

@dj

I'm not sure that Leavers want to be reminded of small boats in the Channel.

dd The challenge to Government is to bloody well GET everyone working together for the sake of the whole country.

If everyone voted for people who made that their priority and had the vision to produce policies that would promote it, and employed speechwriters who could inspire unity, there would be more chance of that succeeding.

As it is, too many of the candidates who are voted in to power, at all levels and from right across the political spectrum, are divisive, not unifying. Party politics has become all-important.