Who said immigrants have to go back?

Well said granjura. To excuse racism strengthens it , there is no excuse, there is only one meaning to racist and it certainly is not - I don't agree with you. Is this what the murderers of Stephen Lawrence meant when they plunged the knife into him

Annie says :

'Racist means I don't agree with you ? that lets racists off the hook then , racist means just one thing and in my opinion dismissing it as I don' t agree with you is denial'

I have to agree with her that Bags commentto this effect was perhaps the worst I read in a long time
Tell that to any of the immigrants being abused and being shouted at to 'go home where you belong' - beggars belief, truly.

I can only imagine people making that sort of comment have never ever experienced racism. I have never experienced this myself- ever or anyhwere- but I've witnessed it many times- ever since the Italian immigrants arrived here in the early 50s. I remember how, as a very samll child, racism made me feel so ashamed for my people, and cry and ask 'why' are people so horrible to my new friends- and the Hungarians who arrived after the up-rising. This feeling has never left me, I am glad to say.

In my continuing search to try and find out what drives racism and xenophobia, what helps the rise of right-wing populism, I found this article, entitled A Few Quick Thoughts on Brexit, by Chris Arnade in which he argues that "The language we use to talk about those who have been left behind [he means the poor] is rife with nasty attempts to turn them into lesser humans. We use the tactics of racism, and apply it to economic losers".

As he's American he lists the sort of terms used there: "We call them dumb. Idiots. Religious freaks. Rednecks. Thugs. Hoodlums. Ghetto trash. White trash".

He says elitism and inequality are racism's ugly cousins and that they drive people to racism and fascism by undervaluing the less successful: "Fascism understands that people want to feel valued and integral part of something larger. Racism is, sadly, the easiest and cheapest way to do that".

Reading the article will aid understanding of his point.

Plenty of people? - I have no idea how many, but am absolutely certain that it is a minority of British people - they would have no need to be so vocal and visible if they were the majority.

daphnedill, you know what they did.
[after reading your replies to rosesarered on the Scotland thread, I realise you try to be clever with words too].

@obieone

Many GNers tried to debunk myths and point the way to sites with facts. What else could they do?

@Luckygirl

Plenty of people have said immigrants have to go back (or, at lest, think they do).

@Anya
The fact that it's a small Catholic school probably gives the game away. Children in small schools get away with far less and, in my experience, one of the reasons people send their offspring to Catholic schools is because they generally have a strict behaviour code, which these days includes inclusivity.

Most of my experience has been in secondary school. At one time I did supply work, so went into numerous schools. Some of them had over 2000 pupils. Xenophobia/racism was dealt with if it happened in the classroom, but it was more difficult during breaks and on the way to and from school. I can assure it happened. I never walked past casual name calling without challenging it. There were some more serious examples, involving writing notes and sometimes fights. Social media was almost impossible to police, but there was much name calling and abuse, sometimes leading to blatant ganging up and bullying.

I don't know whether these pupils grew out of it. Is suspect some didn't.

No-one said immigrants have to go back - heavens above, these are are fellow human beings not parcels!

There are of course such pillocks around, as illustrated by ga's picture - the problem is that those who believe that we should welcome others do not go around having T-shirts printed, because we are the majority, and majorities have no need to do such things.

This does not mean that a coherent immigration policy is not needed - it is long overdue.

My use of ignorant meant not knowledgeable about that particular subject, just to clarify.

Racist means I don't agree with you ? that lets racists off the hook then , racist means just one thing and in my opinion dismissing it as I don' t agree with you is denial

GS1 goes to a small catholic school with less than 100 pupils. I've lost track of the languages I hear at picking up time. More than 50% of pupils do not have English as their first language, though the majority are white, with a smaller proportion of Asian families.

I've never seen or witnessed any xenophobic or racist behaviour nor does GS1 report any in school.

Against the trend in the West Midlands, our vote was for 'Remain'. I'd like to think that that is because we have seen a new school built and several local primaries have extended from 2-form entry to 3-form entry, to absorb the increased number of immigrants of primary age. Likewise secondary schools.

I mention this because, I don't think the majority of people are xenophobic or racist, but when public services are overwhelmed by an increase in numbers, due to bad local planning, then I can understand the frustration of not being able to, as an example, get your child into your local school.

I think it very significant that our small area voted to remain, despite being very mutlicitural and I put it down to there being no pressure on services.

[I am never sure if the word ignorant is an insulting word or not].

annsixty, yes, I think a lot of people get that muddled.

Anniebach. Gransnetters on here did them a huge disservice too.
Some deliberately muddled and muddied up the whole issue, big time.
Instead of educating gransnetters, how they went about it, seemed worse than what the politicians were doing.

every parent cannot teach their child to hsve respect, how many parents belong to UKIP, BNP, EDL and the likes. The constant ranting against immigrants over these months by politicians has been sickening, we want our country back was the daily rant

Are people so ignorant that they don't know the difference between race and nationality?
The zenophobes seem to see evil in anyone not born in the same town.

FarNorth, I dont know if politicians are saying anything about it to calm the situation down either. Good question.

I don't agree with him either though I think he has a point.

BTW, with regard to my earlier post about European race and culture, I was of course talking generally. I realise there are European citizens who have descended from, or come straight from, different races and different cultures.

But the reports I heards of recent xenophobic behaviour by some Brits said it was directed at Poles, the vast majority of whom are the same race and share the same culture as the vast majority of Brits.

"Who said immigrants have to go back?"

Are any politicians saying that they won't have to go back? Or saying anything intended to calm the situation?

(I don't follow the news much so I don't know if they are doing that or not.)

I'm afraid I don't agree with Mr Bags' thinking. Racism is possibly an overused term, but there are too many people who ARE racist and use the same excuse.

Fair enough! I used the term lazily. I don't respect any religion anyway, because I'm an atheist, but I respect people's right to practise their religion.

On a more positive note, it does seem that many people are trying to fight back

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jun/27/brexit-polish-centre-london-reeling-after-graffiti-attack

I asked MrBags if, were he to be insulted, he'd prefer to be called hysterical or racist. Without a pause, he said 'racist'. Why? Because he reckons it is such an abused term nowadays that it has lost its bite and doesn't mean anything other than "I don't agree with you".

Well, if it is, they are the same race and have the same culture as Brits so racism and culture-dislike (is there a name for that?) doesn't come into it.

Xenophobia might but that's not the same as racism.

I thought this was till about the EU and its citizens.

"It is reasonable for us to control numbers, and that we insist that people who move here work for a living, pay their taxes and obey our laws. But to lock out vital overseas skills would be an economic own goal. Just as importantly, if we allow prejudice to shut our borders, it will alienate us from the community of nations among whom we now seek to trade. Our attitude to their citizens will determine their attitude to us."

by Simon Wolfson. He's saying (better) what I said. Note that it is attitude to citizens (i.e. people) that matters. Wanting people to obey our laws is not disrespectful towards them even if it appears to be lacking in respect for their culture and their ideas of what the law should be.

Thank you for your good post, ga.

I agree with the sentiment (general feeling of) your post at 04:30:11 this morning, dd, but I don't agree that all cultures and religions should be respected. The people belonging to all cultures or races and those belonging to all religions should be respected, not the cultures and religions. I respect people, not ideas or beliefs.

Well, I might respect an idea or belief in the sense of agreeing that it is good, but if I don't think it is good I will argue with it and not respect it except insofar as to respect the person holding it. I suspect that your approach is, in fact, the same. After all, you argue with plenty of stuff on gransnet while, I am sure, still respecting the people who express it.