Farage

DJ, I was not suggesting pupils learn programming languages, please re-read my post, I was saying the opposite. As DD says, maths and logical thinking is the backbone of all computer languages.

Many people outside the industry think that computers are the backbone of IT, but these days networking is far more important and that has it's own protocols and languages. Anyone that can master Cisco programming can name their salary. Yes Cisco routers use microprocessor technology, but they are not computers as most people recognise. I worked with Cisco routers for years, but only knew a tiny % of what they could do.

I wonder how much Farage knows about computer programming.

My son went on an economics school trip to Estonia (yeah, I know, exciting) and was stunned to find out how much the government is investing in high-level computer skills. Estonia currently has GDP growth of above 6% and most of this is down to the growth of software skills, which the country is exporting.

Estonia is a backwater, but recognised a niche market. If Estonia can do it, why can't any area of the UK?

Farage has no plans for going forward. He appeals to people with a grudge - and that's it.

That was always the case, G&T. You cannot expect schools to teach the language they will use at work. The idea is to get kids enthused, not to put them off.
My son's engineering degree included computer science, and over four years he learnt as many computer languages, depending on what he was working on at the time.

Many pupils know far more than their teachers.

I agree with you, GandTea. I worked for an IT recruitment consultancy for two years before I started teaching. I quickly picked up that it wasn't about what people knew but what they were capable of learning. This was in the late 1980s, when people who knew anything about computing were as rare as hen's teeth.

The problem in schools is that IT was dumbed down. It became a subject every pupil needed to study, but the kind of things they needed to learn was 'How does IT influence parking tickets?' Pupils learnt absolutely nothing about programming. High level maths and logical thinking is far more important. The biggest problem is finding teachers.

There is a major problem with teaching computer programming in schools -- what language do you choose. Also languages change so frequently that a student learning a specific language may not find an employer using it. Over 15 years in IT I must have worked in a dozen different languages. Computer theory is fine,but not programming. Had I done programming at college it would have been BASIC, which I never used in the real world. All my knowledge was gained by in job training as new languages became used.

JessM Re eu staff in the hospitality industry. I think it's more a case of these people are proud to do a good job in this industry, and it shows.
Unlike in this country where it's often perceived as a lowly job.
I have mentioned on here before that I was living in Bulgaria when they went into the eu. Many good restaurants went out of business because their excellant staff left for Europe.

@durhamjen

I agree. Computer programming in schools is definitely improving. The problem now is to find the staff who can teach it.

It's always been thus. For as long as I can remember people have had to move to find work, especially well paid, specialist work. I tried to find work on Merseyside after I graduated, but I couldn't, which is how I ended up in Essex.

When I was researching my family history, I noticed that the small town my paternal family came from had a female population roughly double the size of the male population. The reason was that the males went away to find work, leaving the women at home.

Cambridge used to be a fairly sleepy city. There was the university and another area built as London overspill after WW2. It was definitely 'town and gown', but it deliberately set out to be a global IT/science/pharma city. The university and hospital work together and there are numerous start-up software companies. People in those fields like working here because they can network with others who have the same interests. Employers know they can headhunt easily and employees know they can find work. The city also has a quite active Chinese community and attracts people from Hong Kong, many of whom have advanced accountancy skills. The big problem now is the cost of housing. Rents are almost at London levels and are becoming unsustainable.

The market tends to make adjustments. If the cost of living is too high, there's a shortage of labour, so wages rise. However, the market ultimately fails. Public service workers (on national wage rates) and people on minimum wage jobs can't afford to live here.

We really do have a divided country and it's getting worse. If North West Wales (or any other area) really wants to keep up with the global economy, it needs to try and encourage niche workers - maybe build science parks. The EU has been an invaluable source of funding for such projects, but I wonder if British politicians have really had the vision to make it work.

Maybe they should all be on zero hours contracts, and only be paid for the hours they work, Jess.

Comment on Farage taking his salary and doing no work for it:
www.richardcorbett.org.uk/dishonourable-exception/

There'll probably be more people interested soon, JessM. My granddaughter is designing apps to show river systems and meanders, etc. She's nine.

Hot spots?!
Bit more than spots POGS - you're talking pretty much all of Wales, N Ireland, most of the N of England, parts of the Midlands and a variety of more southern rural areas.
I live in one of the less economically active areas of Wales POGS - the North West. Very lovely place but a real shortage of employment.

Jess M

I fully appreciate there are hot spots throughout the UK.

May I ask where 'round here' is, or is that an insensitive question?

Oh bless. You shouldn't mock - no really. You'll upset people

POGS you should try coming round here to look for a job. Lots of people with good qualifications can't find jobs, let alone those with few qualifications.
Re computer industry the UK does not educate enough computer programmers (our out of date curriculum plus stereotyping of the subject as a "boys" subject is probably to blame).
UK companies are more than happy to employ Polish or other EU programmers but there are not enough of them either. Lots are coming in from India which has the sense to educate lots of people in this subject, including large numbers of women.
Only a couple of years ago I was advertising a job of software tester. This is a job that hardly any UK or EU - origin people are interested in. I had well over 50 applicants and not one of them was EU. All of them already had the right to work here.
One might also note that a high percentage of jobs in the hospitality industry in the south of England seem to be filled with EU staff - possibly because they are willing to work the long and un-social shifts.

I bet the 'mooslamic infidels' are quaking in their boots at having him as a defender of Eng-er-land.

Brilliant, granjura, but I bet he couldn't get out of bed early enough to work in a care home.

Many of the British people are urging David Cameron to begin Article 50 immediately, EU leaders are telling David Cameron to begin Article 50 in order for us to leave their organisation, world markets are asking that Article 50 be started in order to stabilise the trade and industry situation as rapidly as possible but, predictably, he is ignoring all this.

Why?

He knows that if he can delay until March 31st next year the referendum result will not be enforceable under Lisbon Treaty rules and it will take at least 14 other "States" to "allow" the democratic position upheld by 52 per cent of the British people to go ahead. By having a leadership election he abdicates his responsibilities as Prime Minister and adds to the delays which, in turn, are also allowing time for protests, and even legal challenges, to the democratic decision of the people in the hope that the damage caused will lead to an outcry for a second referendum and an overturning of the first.

He knows that by delaying the uncertainty caused will be highly damaging to both our country and the rest of the EU, but what the heck? Those 'silly UKIP people will get the blame' won't they, even though UKIP has said Article 50 should be implemented as soon as the referendum result is known so as to prevent the problems we are now seeing. (source: UKIP manifesto).

By delaying initiating Article 50 David Cameron, and no one else, is destroying the country he claims to 'love' and, typical of all Prime Ministers of recent years, is refusing to take responsibility for the impending potential disaster he alone is bringing about. It is 'dithering Dave' which is the problem, not Brexit.

Daphnedill, regarding an earlier post of yours about Farage, if Farage wwere a poor lamb, I would agree with you. I am a vegetarian and not offended.

Just found a fantastic job, if anybody knows anybody who's interested

www.cv.ee/job-ad/dream-group-ou/client-happiness-manager-f3108060.html?full=1

@granjura

I feel sooooo much better that people like that have been given back control.

@Zorro

Pay me at least minimum wage (including for travelling time) and expenses and I'll deliver a meal to your mother.

She can either pay herself or you could try to persuade the government to increase taxation to pay for it.

Unfortunately, Farage is now going to have more time on his hands to be an irritant.

We need to

a) stop thinking of all immigrants as cabbage pickers
b) look at who exactly is unemployed in the UK

The reasons immigrants come to the UK are many and varied - from the quarter of a million French in London, Eastern European medics and para-medics and people with some other kind of skill which the UK needs/wants.

On the whole, it's not 'youngsters' who are causing the biggest problems. They hardly receive any benefits and they'd have to be really stupid not to want work. Unfortunately, some of them turn to drug dealing and other anti-social activities. Others do have to make a jump and seek work in other areas. We have a number of weekly boarders, particularly from the North East, who go home to their families at weekends.

The biggest rise in unemployment is in the over 50s. People have been made redundant, either 'en masse' from the steel or other industry or from small companies going bankrupt. These people find it harder to move, because they have family and other commitments and there aren't many retraining programmes available. Schemes to help people become self-employed have become virtually non-existent. I wouldn't be surprised if that's why this age group makes up the majority of Ukip supporters.

I know there has been research on this topic (which I can't find now), but it was found that this has little to do with the availability of immigrants, but globalisation and the trend towards asset stripping by big businesses.