Farage

Hard to say Baden - we all know how neighbour turned on neighbour in WW2 and more recently in the Balkans. So I am a bit sceptical about the inherent 'niceness' of some human beings and feel that many of them will just side with those who have the upper hand, whether from fear (as in Nazi Germany) or because they are just 'following orders' or because it taps into something evil and twisted within them.

So I respect your doubts.

But I refuse to 'follow orders' and I will stand up to anyone who expresses hatred of others.

Badenkate. I agree with Anya. Hate is hate.
Hating a situation is a very different matter to hating a person.

Well, Anya the Krays were always said to be very loving to their mum, but I don't think they were people I'd describe as 'nice'.
You are right: it's the racism I hate but generally this is personified in the racist and 'closet racism' will exhibit itself if the situation is right. Would these 'genuinely nice' people be nice to those who do not fit with their view of the rightness of things? Allow me to have my doubts.

is that hate or racism ;) or the Dunkirk spirit perhaps ;)

You're welcome ;)

GJ please note I don't respond to your posts.

I've seen not hate from Tegan or anyone who is despairing of the current situation. Lots of racism and hate out there from the LEAVE side, but of course not from the majority.

There is no 'pulling together' that will make the tragic situation we have go away. Free movement of people will have to say if we want trade and other agreements with Europe. And the pain inflicted on the most deprived will not go away either- au contraire.

I dislike racism Baden

But to hate the racist is a whole different issue. I have known some very nice people who hold racist views. When I say nice, I mean people who love their family, work hard, look after their elderly parents and and are genuinely kind people.

Would they step over the line and express their views in violence or insults? Most would not, they are closet racists.

Hating racism I can accept, hating the racist makes one just as bad as the racist, surely.

Hate is hate. .

Thank you Ana.

Sorry you don't agree Tegan - hatred is hatred, it is poisonous.

Could you explain to me Anya what we should do to 'pull together'? I'm not really clear what this involves on a practical level.
I agree there is a lot of hate around, but I'm proud to say that I shall never stop hating racists.

Not an example, Tegan. Anya stated that's what Jo Cox believed - nothing more, nothing less.

Sorry. Answered posts from page 1.

I couldn't see him leaving it all go.

I dont agree that things wouldn't have changed Bluecat.

50/50 was absolutely fair

I honestly don't see how you can use Jo Cox as an example of why we should all be optimistic. When someone that can only see the good in people is murdered in such a horrific way what hope is there? If that's a glass half full way of thinking about things it's no wonder I think the opposite.

Firecracker it's no use trying to put a positive spin on it as some people will only see the negative. I think the difference is that yes, most of us accept things are going to be a bit tough before they improve, but improve they will.

They would of course improve more quickly if everyone pulled together, a sort of post-Brexit Dunkirk spirit, but that's very rare these days. The modern way is to hate. Hate politicians you disagree with, hate people who have a different view from your own, hate people from different cultures, hate the racists, hate people living in benefits, hate people from 'posh schools' and so on.....

I've commented often on GN when people use the 'hate' word indiscriminately.

By all means disagree, but accept that other people are different and everyone is entitled to an opinion. And that hate breeds hate.

The late Jo Cox believed that we all had more in common with each other than we may realise. I'd like to think that was true and wish to see the country pull together, but all I see is it bring pulled apart at all levels

I feel sorry for you, those rose-tinted specs must interfere with your vision.

Firecracker123- it may be a lot easier to be proud of being British if you do not live abroad (we live so close to the border it is like living in 2) - watch foreign tv (I watch French, Swiss, German and Italian) nor have access to foreign Press. We are indeed the laughing stock, lock, stock and barrel. A mix of scorn and disbelief, mixed with pity.

I feel sorry for you then if that's how you feel. I am optimistic about the future.

If you look at the foreign press, Britain is a laughing stock at the moment. I'm also in the ashamed camp. I am going to France for a week in the summer to visit friends and I hope I am not treated like some pariah by the locals, but I guess it would give me a bit of an insight into how many non-British people are made to feel in Britain today.

We dont need to talk Britain down firecracker123 the referendum result is doing it for us. I am not proud of my country at the moment to be honest, why would I be proud of a country that thinks a dangerous piece of work like NF is a bit of a chap/good fella/tells it like it is? As someone who voted remain I dont have to defend my vote, perhaps you feel you need to by braying nationalism?

Twice on this thread remainers have said they are ashamed to be British, well I'm not, I'm proud to British, proud of my country. Stop talking Britain down.

The same could apply to quite a few other politicians {Boris immediately springs to mind!).

Well, I don't know about interesting - it just means some people have fallen for the clever words and spin, as he intended.

Isn't it interesting that when some of us see Farage we see a slick salesman-like character who is very clever with words, and knows just what he can get away with. Someone who has polished his act, right down to the passport accessory in his pocket.
And others see someone who is "sensible, optimistic and down to earth"

Throughout my adult life I've always said that I would happily have 'less' if it means that those less well off than myself would have more. By more I mean good health care, an education that will enable them to realise their full potential, and good housing. If I thought Brexit would bring that about I would welcome it. But I don't think that it will. I'm entitled to my opinion in this, even if it is classified as whingeing.