Gransnet forums

News & politics

Dallas police shooting

(78 Posts)
Gogogran Fri 08-Jul-16 08:06:51

5 police officers dead. An organised group of snipers. This is terrible. www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-36742835 I completely agree that some of the police have behaved horrifically recently, but this is...I have no words. Innocent people who are killed as a result of their jobs. I am in awe of anyone who's work requires them to put themselves so obviously in harm's way. sad

nigglynellie Sun 10-Jul-16 14:30:41

Because the gun lobby in the USA is extremely powerful, in a way that it never was here. It can make or break a presidential election. How you alter that is anybody's guess!

GandTea Sun 10-Jul-16 14:21:28

Even in the UK it was not illegal to own and carry a gun until the firearms act of 1920, hence Dr Watson carrying his service pistol.
Prior to that under the 1689 bill of rights act there was a right to carry arms.
It was a little more complicated, but the reality was that until 1920 anyone could carry a gun, and until the 1937 firearms act, they were easily bought.
If we could make that change, why can't the USA?

Luckylegs9 Sun 10-Jul-16 13:52:12

How can it be right to get guns and carry them with you? The tape of that man being killed was horrific and hard to listen to how dare anyone treat another person like that? It was racial hatred. Some police give the good guys a bad name, if they are found guilty of abuse they shouldn't be in the force. The majority of law enforcers are just regular people with homes and families. This right to bear arms does not work, how many shooting will it take before the message gets through.

LullyDully Sun 10-Jul-16 08:30:07

Not relevant to the atrocities across the USA.
Certainly JK Rowling didn't discuss colour, but did discuss race.and discrimination. Hermione.was a muggle and bullied because of it as I remember.

breeze Sun 10-Jul-16 08:00:44

jalima if you look up the word 'trouble' in the dictionary, you will find 'difficulty or problem' 'public unrest or disorder' 'cause distress or anxiety to'. So I shall defend my use of the word 'Trouble in the US' but if you would like to insert the word 'huge' in front of it feel free. When I said 'and a little here' I meant people had the need, because of it, to march in London for 'Black People Matter'. It is a shame that the actions of some 'rogue cops'; as it is not indicative of the 'entire US police force’, has caused racial unrest. I also said I feel sorry that Obama couldn't do more about the gun problem in the US, but I could understand why it's so much more difficult there to persuade people. Sending me links explaining the gun laws, implies that you think I approve of gun ownership. It was clear as crystal in my posting that I do not. I simply mentioned that I understood the difficulties faced in solving the problems over there.

Eloethan I shall continue to support non traditional casting. Whether people are real or fictional. Robin Hood and his merry men can all be black as far as I’m concerned, as long as they can act the part. Should Rumi be made with an unknown actor, who, ‘for authenticity’ happens to look ‘just like Rumi’ there will be no ‘bums on seats’ and the film will be flop. So the choice of Leonardo di Caprio, I imagine, was taken for box office not racist reasons.

Granny2016 Sat 09-Jul-16 21:41:14

I stayed with friends in New Jersey and was very uncomfortable to be in a bedroom with several guns secured to an open rack on the wall.
There are a number of videos on the internet of USA police brutality towards seemingly innocent or unharmed people,women included ,even for traffic violation.Another walking away from the officer was shot in his back.
As so many individuals are armed,I imagine the police are always geared up for the worst,but some are too quick with the trigger.
It doesn,t surprise me that there is retribution.

Jalima Sat 09-Jul-16 21:07:51

The right to keep and bear arms is no longer legally or constitutionally protected in the United Kingdom. The right to keep and bear arms for self-protection was included in English common law, but today, most handguns, automatic, and semi-automatic weapons are illegal to possess without special provision.
The right to bear arms was not specifically protected in the United Kingdom until the Bill of Rights of 1689, and then only for Protestants. The first serious control on firearms after this was not established until the passing of the Firearms Act of 1920, more than 200 years later.
Since 1953, it has been a criminal offence in the United Kingdom to carry a knife or any other weapon in a public place without lawful authority or reasonable excuse

Jalima Sat 09-Jul-16 21:02:48

But it’s such a different culture there, with guns freely owned throughout history, so even regulation is frowned upon.
In UK, it’s been unusual to own a gun, and still is.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_keep_and_bear_arms_in_the_United_States

The Right to Bear Arms is part of the American Constitution (Second Amendment)

Eloethan Sat 09-Jul-16 20:26:41

breeze Hermione is an imaginary character in a fictional story. J K Rowling herself has said that there is no reason why Hermione should not be played by a black actress as the character is not real and her ethnicity is irrelevant.

The matter to which you refer is materially different. Rumi was not an imaginary character but a real person. I feel it is quite understandable that there is some opposition to Leonardo di Caprio being offered this role. It is already difficult for non-white actors to get jobs and it is natural that they feel they should have at least had an opportunity to try for this role.

I realise that increasingly roles are allocated without reference to their original gender/race and that "playing around" with traditional roles can free them of racist/sexist undertones (i.e. as in Othello where a recent production cast Iago as a black man). But in a film that is about a real person I think it is different. For instance in the film Mr Turner about J M W Turner - can you imagine Lenny Henry being cast as Turner instead of Timothy Spall? If the situation were reversed and there were very few roles being given to white actors, there would, I think understandably, be some unease.

Jalima Sat 09-Jul-16 18:38:27

Trouble in the US, and a little here it seems, is due to the backlash from what appears to be, a couple of ‘rogue cops’ committing murder.

I think it is a huge problem in the US:

8 July 2016

In the U.S. a total of 509 citizens have been killed this year alone by police. The body count for the previous year stands at a grand total of 990 people shot dead, according to the Washington Post. As the below infographic from Statista shows, most of those killed by police are male and white. 123 of those shot were Black Americans. This is a relatively high share, keeping in mind that close to 13 percent of Americans belong to that ethnic group.

breeze Sat 09-Jul-16 15:50:10

Personally think, all 'normal thinking' people know the difference between fiction and real life. The odd nutcase may be influenced by film/tv/books/games but most enjoy a good thriller without resorting to murdering the neighbours. Trouble in the US, and a little here it seems, is due to the backlash from what appears to be, a couple of ‘rogue cops’ committing murder. I feel sorry that Obama couldn’t do more, during his time in office, to combat gun crime in the US. But it’s such a different culture there, with guns freely owned throughout history, so even regulation is frowned upon. And it seems, because of it, some cops are getting ‘trigger happy’, although I accept, that if the evidence proves it, it looks like there was an assassination in the most recent case. In UK, it’s been unusual to own a gun, and still is. I would hate to see racism rear it’s ugly head again (I’ll come back to the word ‘again’) because of what’s happened out there. And we’ve had, on a smaller scale, more racism here past couple of weeks, due to ‘extremists’ using the ‘opportunity’ of Brexit to spread their hatred. Coming back to the word ‘again’, I don’t mean it had disappeared. And any acts of racial hatred should be dealt with severely. But I’ve lived for quite a while and I’ve noticed a real upturn during my life, with people of all races being treated more fairly. So the word ‘again’ does not for one moment mean it went away, it was just ‘going away’ at last. And this sort of thing brings it so painfully back to the fore, causes hatred that was subsiding, and is a shame that the actions of what appears to be, some rogue cops, has caused all the ‘division’ to come back to the fore. I would say, while on the subject, that I would love a world where we don’t even have to refer to it. The best person gets the job, the role, race shouldn’t enter into it. And it works both ways, I read a black actress landed the role of Hermione in the new Harry Potter play. Quite rightly if she was the right actress for the role. But then I read, sadly, that there had been a petition, that Leonardo di Caprio had been chosen to play the role of Rumi the M.E. poet but people were up in arms, because he wasn’t of middle eastern appearance. You can’t have it both ways and as soon as people start to talk about the right actor for a role, rather than the colour, then we’ll have got there.

Jalima Sat 09-Jul-16 10:42:55

I think Obama will leave office feeling desperately sad that all his efforts to bring about amendments to gun control have been thwarted by the rightwing gun lobby.
Even after all this killing, this is their response:
humanity.uch.latimes.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-87806650/

gononsuch I do think we can become desensitised to tragedies as there seems to be so much reported on our screens and in the press every day; however I must say that the price of petrol was the last thing on my mind when the latest Iraq massacre was reported

If you are genuinely asking for help in developing more empathy, perhaps volunteering or contributing just a small amount to a charity helping refugees and receiving their news updates via email might restore some of your faith in humanity and help you to feel just a bit more involved.

Just a thought, not trying to preach.

Gononsuch Sat 09-Jul-16 09:17:05

Ghandi said 'An eye for an eye..and the whole world is blind

Rosina

Was that before or after he was caught in bed with those 2. 12 year old girls.

whitewave Sat 09-Jul-16 09:06:47

This racial divide and hatred is global.

Marmark1 Sat 09-Jul-16 08:42:31

Well,there you go again,the arrogance of the haves,most of us don't even watch soaps,we certainly don't live our lives like those characters.To assume we do is beyond arrogant,"oh lord give me strength ". Some of you people will never get it.

DaphneBroon Fri 08-Jul-16 22:20:48

I don't actually think it is helpful to hark back to the appalling history of slavery and think both "sides " are ducking the issue of the endemic racism in the US and the disaster course of current gun laws.
No president or Congress has been able to grasp that nettle and it is aggravated beyond measure by the advances in automatic weapons.
Endemic racism. Unrestricted access to guns It is a toxic mix.
Does anybody remember that great film "The Heat of the Night" in which a redneck police chief played by Rod Steiger is thwarted in his attempt (I think) !to frame the black police detective Virgil Tibbs, played by Sidney Poitier.
Attitudes have sadly not changed over the intervening 50(?) years.,

Rosina Fri 08-Jul-16 21:36:21

Ghandi said 'An eye for an eye..and the whole world is blind'

Anya Fri 08-Jul-16 20:47:30

It worries me Disgruntled & SwimHome that some people think life is actually like the soaps.

Hatred exists before the violence AB and hatred breed hatred and, sometimes, violence. Then everything escalates out of control.

SwimHome Fri 08-Jul-16 20:42:49

Thank you, Disgruntled, that's appreciated.

Disgruntled Fri 08-Jul-16 20:36:45

I'd join you, SwimHome. Far too much violence on the screen in our living rooms.

Disgruntled Fri 08-Jul-16 20:11:29

I agree,Smileless. Even the language in the soaps is violent these days.

Smileless2012 Fri 08-Jul-16 15:29:43

Yes it certainly has in this case. The avoidable and unnecessary deaths at the hands of some police and the avoidable and unnecessary deaths of their colleagues.

Anniebach Fri 08-Jul-16 15:10:02

Violence breeds violence

Smileless2012 Fri 08-Jul-16 15:01:33

I do take your point SwimHome but there's a vast difference in watching a death in the context of a fictional drama and taking hold of a gun, knife or anything that can be used as a weapon and killing someone.

This isn't anything new, think of all of the films that were made about both world wars, westerns, historical dramas re telling our gruesome past when going to watch an execution was one of the rare forms of entertainment they had.

What has changed is the coverage of acts of violence in the news. Footage is shown today that would never have been shown 20 years ago.

SwimHome Fri 08-Jul-16 14:42:21

As long as we subscribe to the a Western culture of death as entertainment we're part of this. What do we watch on TV every evening? You've got me on my hobby-horse now because the pornography of death that surrounds us is unspeakable in a so-called civilised society and yet we tolerate or even 'enjoy' it. I'd be campaigning constantly against this except that no-one will join me. It normalises murder and death and bears considerable responsibility for these actions and for the gun culture in the USA.