Could Labour 'split'. Tom Watson calls off talks.

Because "no hopers" can be the ones that cause a lot of damage. Think Edward Snowden for example. Or rogue city traders.

MI5 - perhaps that is who the Queen meant when she said something along the lines of, "there are dark forces at work in this country".

Eloethan, trisher, Lazigirl, ygydrasil[sp], durhamjen, Gonansuch, nightowl, Gracesgran, to name some, are posters who support Corbyn.

obieone You refer to the "large number" of left wing Gransnetters who are "not bothered" to join in the Corbyn hate fest.

Actually, there are very few people on any of the threads who are supporting Corbyn. The vast majority are going with the general flow which portrays him as a coward and a bully and a thoroughly dangerous man. For the very few that want to give him a chance, it has also been implied, in increasingly condemnatory posts, that they are somehow complicit in anti-democratic, anti-semitic/racist and bullying behaviour.

There has been much ridiculing of McCluskey's suspicion that underhand methods are being used to try and discredit Corbyn and those that support him. However, there is plenty of documented evidence to show the security service's efforts to destabilise certain groups, sometimes using infiltrators to commit acts of aggression so as to alienate the general public. This has included the infiltration of pressure groups such as CND, various environmental groups including those opposed to airport expansion, anti arms trade groups, animal rights groups, etc. etc.

The book "Britain Unwrapped" says "There is sufficient evidence from the past to suggest that the security services have in fact targetted trade unions and pressure groups under the vague label of "subversion".

In an article about his book "A Very British Coup", Chris Mullin, a former MP, said he had used the domestic and international situation prevailing at the time, and his own experience of the British and American security services, to examine what the establishment might do if a left wing government were to be elected. In that article he said:

"In August 1985 the 'Observer' revealed that an MI5 officer, Brigadier Ronnie Stoneham, was to be found in room 105 at Broadcasting House. His job? To vet applicants for employment or promotion at the BBC and to stamp upturned Christmas trees on the personnel files of those he deemed unsuitable. Students of "A Very British Coup" will know that my head of MI5, Sir Peregrine Craddock, was also vetting BBC employees. What's more, he had a spy on the general council of CND - and in due course an MI5 defector, Cathy Massiter, revealed that there had indeed been such a spy. His name was Harry Newton. Finally in 1987 Peter Wright, a retired MI5 officer, caused a sensation with his claim that a group of MI5 officers, of whom he was one, had plotted to undermine the Wilson government. Suddenly the possibility that the British Establishment might conspire with its friends across the Atlantic to destabilise the elected government could no longer be dismissed as left-wing paranoia."

Of course, Corbyn is not part of an elected government and it seems that virtually all TV and newspaper commentators have been united in their efforts to keep it that way. They characterise Corbyn as being a rather ridiculous, ineffectual and unelectable figure whilst, oddly, also being a dangerous man who is a threat to democracy. I wonder why so much effort is being expended on tearing apart the character, motivation and abilities of a person who has been claimed to be a "no hoper".

Nick Griffin ex leader of the BNP was a holocaust denier - sorry holocaust questioner

By the way, Eisen is a constituent of Corbyn's.
Nobody is defending him. The article by Eisen that daphne linked to is about the fact that Israel destroyed whole villages in Palestine, some of them right next door to the Holocaust Memorial. This was in 1948, straight after the war. Why?

Unbelievable, some will find any excuse to defend Corbyn , all ethnic cleansing is abhorrent and denying the gas chambers is also abhorrent .

At least I now see to what lengths some will go to defend this man ,

Neither of them mine, aquagran.
Obie put a link on answering her own questions, including about where she could find out about MI5.
At least when I put links on I read them first.

...makes a chain.

Link after link!

There is also a link on that link to Len McLuskey's article on MI5. It happened to Wilson, but we will not know about Corbyn until another 30 years is up. Unless, of course, a whistleblower comes along, who nobody will believe.

Iam64 if anyone should be able to look at the history of the holocaust it would seem a Jewish person should have that right.His argument that every other genocide or racial maltreatment can be questioned and discussed but not the holocaust would seem to have some validity. I don't agree with the conclusions he draws from his researches, but I can certainly see that it should be possible to examine the evidence without being condemned.

Have you read Eisen's 'Why I call myself a holocaust denier'?

forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=7630

Much of what Eisen has said has been taken out of context.

Obie, I think you need to read your own link. It answers your questions.
Obviously, you do not believe a word of what Corbyn's people say, otherwise you would not have put the link on.

Being a holocaust denier is sick, but acceptable if a holocaust questioner - just as sickening in my opinion

Iam64 and Devorgilla I see that I have put my comment on the wrong thread ( too many political threads just now.)It was meant for the thread where Tegan says much the same thing as yourselves.
How can anybody ( especially Jewish) be a holocaust denier.....it's sick.
Djen I think there may well be deselection for those who oppose Corbyn, I can just see that coming!

obieone, it was said on the BBC news today

Grumppa, just as much a fairy tale as them smashing up cars and Windows , but you have given me a giggle and I thank you

I think it was Harry Potter and Ron , no finger prints, just a wave of the wand and the owl flew through the window in Angela's building

Where can I read about what M15 may have done ab?

Perhaps Len McCluskey will accuse MI5 of having arranged the holocaust.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/22/female-labour-mps-call-on-jeremy-corbyn-to-act-over-escalating-abuse

Why is Jeremy not trying to stop it?
Why is he not speaking up?
Why are a large number of left wing gransnetters not appearing to be bothered by this?

Trisher, are you suggesting that because Eisen is Jewish, it's ok for him to be what you call a holocaust questioner?

It will not be orchestrated deselection any more than this leadership campaign has been orchestrated.
If Corbyn wins and the PLP back him and the party, there will be no deselection.
MPs are put there by the party. Too many of them were parachuted in by the top in the Blair years, rather than going up through the local groups. They are the ones who seem to feel they have an entitlement to their seats, whatever the members say.

In 2007 the Palestinian Solidarity Group proposed a motion disowning Eisens group the DYR . Yet Corbyn attended meetings after this date

And I quote - I question that there ever existed homicidal gas chambers, deny the holocaust for my money a child of six can see that somethings not right about about the holocaust narrative, for me holocaust denier is a label I accept

Eisen

I have no more to say on this man or to anyone who defends him

I suppose another thing Corbyn would say of - with hindsight I was wrong

Rosesarered, I too want to nail my colours to the mast as anti-Corbynist. I didn't vote for him as leader last time and I won't vote that way this time. I am appalled that, if he is elected again, we will lose excellent people from the PLP through orchestrated deselection and, by default, from the Party itself. So many people of our age group in the Party don't feel up to fighting this all over again. The fallout from this will be immense for the Party itself but the real losers will be the electorate who will not have a forceful opposition to fight for them. I will hang in there initially to see what happens but if I have a Corbyn candidate imposed upon me instead of our excellent MP they can whistle for me canvassing for them. I'd rather watch paint dry.
But, as I said in a previous post, there is always another ambitious young thing from your own side biting at your heels. Nothing lasts forever.

trisher So how long are people expected to forgive Corbyn for ' inadvertently' being associated with vile people.
What next, is he going to extol the virtues of Kim Jong un ? He probably thinks that Robert Mugabe is a good egg as well.

Firstly you keep referring to 'the Jewish MP' being attacked. The attacker has consistently denied knowing that the MP is Jewish so her religion is irrelevant and doesn't need to be brought into this. Corbyn has said that he had no idea about Eisen being a holocaust denier that he attended a few meetings with him but has since cut off contact. I have read Eisen's writing and find some of it, particularly his account of how he became aware of what happened to Palestinian villages, very interesting. He calls himself a holocaust denier but might better be described as a holocaust questioner. It is interesting that even a Jewish man is not permitted to carefully examine the question and to reach his own conclusions.

Petra, I was so upset when I was told, I looked it up, well someone did it for me, how could he even acknowledge the existence of Eisen, I am more than angry now, I am disgusted with Corbyn, it is becoming clearer why so many couldn't accept him leader and why he remained silent when the Jewish MP was verbally attacked