Could Labour 'split'. Tom Watson calls off talks.

Does anyone remember that Corbyn also supported an attempted coup against a leader of the Labour Party ... he supported Tony Benn against Neil Kinnock.

And Peep, I was surprised that on this thread the line that Labour and Gordon Brown are the reason that we had a recession and the resulting austerity. Surely that had more to do with the worldwide banking crisis. Or was Brown responsible for the problems in Iceland, Spain, Greece et al. In fact, he steadied the ship here and saved several of our banks going to the wall.

Kinnock has consistently argued this, but in 88 the Labour leader was elected by a different system completely. The real answer is no one knows. However if Corbyne isn't included there will be a substantial number of Labour supporters who will feel disenfranchised

Neil Kinnock on the Labour Party nomination rules, his concluding three paragraphs. I've posted this because I've also read an argument this morning that says Corbyn should be automatically included in nominations for a new Labour leader simply because he is the incumbent. Kinnock seems to be arguing otherwise.

*Those who say now that "the rules are different from ’88 and do not require a leader to gain nominations from 20 per cent of the PLP”"are wrong. That wasn’t always the case. As recently as March this year, Corbyn’s supporters were saying to the press: "The current Labour Party rules do not clearly spell out that an incumbent leader is automatically on the ballot paper for leader in the event of a challenger securing the requisite nominations". If the leader’s automatic inclusion on the ballot paper wasn’t clear to them three months ago, how is it so plain now?

The most straightforward perception of those rules is that the words "any nomination" means that all candidates, including the leader, must be supported by 20 per cent of Labour MPs and MEPs.

Even apart from the constitutional formalities, however, the most salient and compelling truth remains: It is not credible, not serious, not even practical for anyone to lead the Labour Party without at least substantial support from MPs. A no confidence vote of 172-40 showed beyond doubt that such support does not exist for Jeremy Corbyn. That is not because of the resistance of obtuse parliamentarians or remote inhabitants of the Westminster Bubble. It is certainly not because they think, in Dennis Skinner’s phrase, that they are "more important than the rest of the party". On the contrary, it is the action of dedicated Labour people who know from the repeated evidence of countless public contacts that the PARTY is too important to be left to corrosion and collapse.*

Yes and I did in my reply to Hooty, we lesser mortals make errors

As did Hooty

Just pointing it out in case thstbags thinks there's been an overnight coup

Does Corbyn have a split personality, he wants to stop heckling in the house - ehich is the job of the speaker - yet sat silently and listened to one of his own MP's being verbally attacked by a heckler , when asked a reporter why he didn't defend her Corbyn said - I wasn't chairman . The reported replied - you are leader of the party.

I typed SDP not SNP, not at all confused,

The SNP is the ruling party in Scotland. The SDP is something completely different. A couple of people seem to be getting them confused.

Peep I don't think you will find many Blair and Brown fans on this forum.

Thank you, all, that was fascinating, if depressing. I saw JC at Sheffield and was smitten. A man of integrity and the opposite of a rabble-rouser - he didn't even pause for applause. I liked the fact that he wanted to do things differently, wanted to stop the public school brawling in the House (wasn't it marvellous to see them all united and looking like humans when Jo Cox was murdered). But how do we get rid of the Murdoch press? and those appalling tv shows? Has anyone seen the new Michael Moore film? If only we could get someone to adopt the policies he "stole" from other countries.

Thought that Angela Eagle looked happy and confident today, setting out her reasons for challenging Corbyn.
If Corbyn wins again ( which he may well do) then Labour will have to split.

At the risk of being annihilated can someone tell me what good Blair and Brown did for this country other than sell off our gold, raid private pensions and get the country in to horrendous debt, which has necessitated the need for austerity? Also I will never forget Denis Healey having to go cap in hand to the IMF in the 70s!!

So, if there was a general election and Labour got in, JC could be PM for ever and push through whatever he wanted. Crikey!

There cannot be a change of leader unless momentum and the unions withdraw support or he chooses to stand down, so yes he can be leader for as long as he chooses

If the current leader is automatically a contender and his supporters can be drummed up and join and vote for £3, that means he potentially has a job for life! He can't be got out so a split is inevitable and then who will form a credible opposition until there's a general election?

The Tories are ready for an election, John Trickett is gearing up just uncase thry do call one

I think you may be talking about the SNP rather than the SDP which joined with the Liberal party to become the Liberal Democrats.

I can't see Eagle being being suitable PM material.

It is difficult to lead if the people who are there to be led work against you all the time. OK Jeremy isn't a charismatic orator, but we have had one of those before. It was up to Angela Eagle and all the others who can speak to support him, and keep from giving the media any chance to put him down.
If the Executive do keep him off the ballot paper, every one who wanted him can just cross out whoever is there and write Jeremy's name on it!

The SDP would never drop Scotland from their party's title , well not in my opinion Hooty

What are SDP like? I know they have taken over labour seats in Scotland. (Sorry, other than being a loyal labour voter I am not really into politics, so this might seem utterly ridiculous.) Could they step in and rename themselves the Democratic Party, field some people in England and Wales and maybe battle the hated Tories if Labour are disintegrating? I despair of Tories getting back in but Labour are always squabbling and now they have lost their Scottish seats it seems like they will not ever be in power again. Very !

it will take more than labour supporter votes to win an election . Anyway Corbyn will remain leader , doesn't matter that he doesn't have the support of the majority of labour MP's they will be deselected and momentum and the unions choice will replace them

Unions gave us Ed Milliband

Same here F77MS I thought I was fairly middle of the road left, but apparently I too am militant. This whole thing is ridiculous, if the PLP don't like him they should go back to their constituencies and find out what the people there think, not skulk around using whispers and rumours to stir things up.

From the moment of Corbyn's election, the major part of the media has opposed him, almost before he opened his mouth. What are the chances of a genuine socialist getting anything other than ridicule and vilification from the popular press? About as good as a snowball's prospects in hell, I would imagine.

Corbyn isn't a great orator. He's no Barack Obama, capable of making speeches that stir your blood. On the other hand, it seems that, when he speaks, he expresses a real concern for the vulnerable, the poor, the marginalised - those who have no power of their own. I believe he is a decent, principled man who is motivated by something greater than his own career. He wants to remain as the leader because he intends to fight for the things he, and those who elected him, want to achieve. Socialist beliefs are never very welcome in the corridors of power. Frankly, I'm amazed he has lasted this long.

Is he likely to win a General Election? God knows - this isn't the 1980s. Who knew the Brexit vote would go the way it did? No-one who based their opinion on the previous EU referendum. I get tired of being told we've got to have a centrist candidate to win - what's the point? All we get then is Tory Lite. I had more respect for Thatcher, who never pretended to be anything other than Satan personified, than the mealy-mouthed posturing of Labour's would-be Thatchers like Blair and Mandelson.

I am not a militant or far left . I support Corbyn wholeheartedly . He has not lost the confidence of his Plp because of his performance , he never had their support from DAY ONE , this referendum result was just the excuse they were waiting for . I want the kind of politics that Corbyn represents like the masses of other people who voted him in . Eagle will fall flat on her face . Sorry if that was a rant , I am truly fed up of being called Far left, a militant and even a weirdo by some Labour MP on TV . My friends and family ( a very mixed bunch of professions / attitudes) all support Corbyn and some have joined because he is leader .