Wolf whistling - a hate crime ??

A hate crime? What a load of old codswallop.

I think that much worse than wolf whistle is the way almost everything is described as sexy.some cars are sexy some food is sexy if things are not sexy they can be sexed up,whatever that means. (I would probably faint if I were wolf whistled )I am so past that

moobox,

Sexual banter, especially in the workplace has been extinguished and wolf whistling etc frowned upon, many building sites have a code of conduct and proudly display it on notices on the gates etc.

As we emasculate our men in the name of restricting 'hate' we find a rise in the viewing of pornography on the internet, which people can pay f or and view without much chase of being chastised (they have to pay extra for that).........we are making sex another thing to be worried about and for the authorities to mediate. In the meantime, young women too drunk to stand and wearing next to nothing, lie in the gutters and then moan when they feel they may have been assaulted.

Talk about mixed messages.

To call a wolf whistle a 'hate crime' is to trivialise the meaning of the term.

It's funny when they wolf whistle at your back, then their faces drop if you turn round and they see you're a granny

I can't quite see how you can call a wolf whistle a hate crime, but like a lot of these thing it is the context of the behaviour.

Too much of this behaviour taken to the level of intimidation, as described by others, is wrong and can feel very threatening. Getting the balance of this issue right needs careful thought, certainly not a knee jerk response of making it a crime.

Yes, it's worth a read. It's by Kathy Lette and she got in a plug for her new book at the end.

Title of a piece in the Times this morning: "Ban wolf-whistling, except for over-50 women like me". Chortle. I'll go read it and get back to you if its contents are good.

Yes, I know, it's not that simple, pedants. It looks promising as a piss-take and you know how I love those

vampirequeen Do women whistle at men? Perhaps. Not only have I never felt a need to, I can't whistle – or ride a bike, the two, apparently, going hand in hand (as it were).

More seriously, I don't think the occasional whistle at a woman is a hate crime, but it is certainly tiresome and can be distressing, particularly if it is a regular or frequent occurrence or accompanied by harassment or nasty comments. That's still probably not hate crime, but I am not clear what the law says about that sort of stuff.

vq not one rule for men and one rule for women.
Simply that misogyny is all too common, and misandry comparatively rare.

No, anybody receiving unwanted, repeated attention for any reason is being harrassed. It works both ways.

Is misandry a hate crime too or is it one rule for women and another for men?

The key word is 'unwanted'.
No-one is going to be prosecuted for whistling at a woman who has no objection to being whistled at.

The Notts Chief Constable has said that the new procedures are part of tackling all kinds of misogyny and I think we should welcome that.
I hope it includes online misogyny and that people who abuse prominent women on Twitter are appropriately dealt with.

There is a difference between wolf whistles and lewd/threatening comments.

The article isn't just about wolf whistles, although it includes them, but more generalised sexual comments.

I have just been involved in a verbal/physical abuse and harrassment incident, so I've had the law on harrassment explained to me by the police.

A person has to experience two separate incidents from the same person/people for the police to consider harrassment. They are then obliged to act. The first stage is to give an informal warning that a person is upset by a particular action. If the behaviour continues, action can be taken in a magistrates' court and a harrassment order can be issued. If the person breaks the harrassment order, criminal proceedings can be started. Therefore, it's a long process and many people might just put up with it. I don't think they should.

Occasional wolf whistling is probably fairly harmless, but if somebody has to put up with it every time she walks into work (for example), I think the employer should be informed and warn the whistlers and take disciplinary action if necessary.

I experienced misogynistic comments when I first started work. Thinking back, I wish I'd reported them, because I deliberately avoided this person. As he was my line manager, I eventually ended up changing my job. As a teenager, I was tall, skinny and had blonde hair (I'm still tall ) and I used to wear clothes to cover up, which meant I couldn't wear mini skirts or tight tops, so I always felt a bit of a frump.

I hated wolf whistles and I'm glad younger men seem to objectify women less than they did.

I don't disagree with your comments about the verbal harassment and lewd comments Trisher . It's the wolf whistling bit . Strikes me as a hammer to crack a nut !

Me too! If I didn't get a wolf whistle going past a building site or wherever, I was mortified!!! The only person now who whistles is DH, who clearly needs specsavers!! or perhaps he's just being kind!!!! I always treated it as a compliment, and as for comments, I think they're probably nastier these days, years ago they were generally just saucy!

Now I know I'm getting old. When I was in my teens if I didn't get wolf whistled I would be really upset. I never felt intimidated - just pleased that someone thought I looked attractive. There was no harm in it.

trisher I completely agree with what you say - this is about much more than the odd 'cheeky' wolf-whistle. That your son's girlfriend should have to modify her clothing just to avoid being leered at on the street is obscene to me. My own daughter is constantly upset by these types of lewd remarks, comments on her physical appearance, sexual remarks etc. etc.

Saying essentially that getting dressed and going outside can be seen as 'sexual signalling' is offensive. Women should have the right to walk down the street without being stared or leered at. It's up to men to control themselves, not women to 'dress appropriately'. I would suggest this behaviour is often a show of dominance over a woman most of the time, rather than 'harmless fun'. Just shows how outdated some views are on what women should have to put up with.

If you read the article it isn't just wolf whistling but verbal harassment and lewd comments. My DSs girlfriend has been subjected to this and became very upset. She isn't English but is tall and very attractive. She has had very rude remarks made to her often by men in their 20s in small groups. The remarks varied from things like "nice arse" to graphic and crude descriptions of what they would like to do to her. If she goes out alone she no longer wears short skirts and tries to wear loose concealing clothing. I feel desperately sorry for her and deeply ashamed of a country where this can happen so I think the more prosecutions the better.

That's ridiculous, have they nothing better to do with their time, the Notts Police I mean. Provided there are no offensive remarks accompanying the whistle then I don't see the problem.
We will soon have a life devoid of fun & humour then the PC brigade will be happy.
I like your idea annodomini made me laugh. I would be flattered to be wolf whistled now.

What a ridiculous waste of police time. Is there no other crime in Nottinghamshire? If so, should we all move there as we'll be safe from burglary, muggings, assault and all the other crimes that happen elsewhere?

I always thought a wolf whistle was a compliment. In fact DH still whistles sometimes when he sees me. I thought this was because he appreciated me but apparently it's because he hates me.

I've known a few misogynists. I never thought of them as criminals. Deluded but not criminal .

St Paul was a renowned misogynist. Lucky for him he lived nearly 2000 years ago. If he lived in Nottinghamshire in 2016 he'd have never been able to organise Christianity because he'd be too busy being taken to court for hate crimes

I really thought that wolf whistles had died out, like messenger boys whistling. Now I realise why I haven't heard one for years?

Making wolf whistling a hate crime is pandering to a very silly victim mentality. I wonder if those who think a wolf whistle is hateful and criminal are really just envious of people who get them.

I can understand lewd comments being regarded as harassment, depending on how lewd they are.

Can't say I've ever felt hated or abused by such attentions from men. A little blushy at times perhaps, but that's all.

Women's fashion industry spends its time trying to get women to wear and do "head turning" things. Then when some women are successful in turning heads and eliciting appreciative whistles or comments, they object. Seems a bit skewiff to me. There is an argument that women do it (the wearing of head turning things, etc) for themselves and not for men, but we (men and women) are sexual creatures and it's silly to expect that what can be seen as sexual signalling shouldn't be seen as such.