Wolf whistling - a hate crime ??

In my teens and twenties I would blush to the roots of my hair if anyone wolf whistled at me. Then one day I saw a handsome chap working on a building site nearby where I worked. I tried a bit of 'reverse psychology' and wolf whistled at him. We have been happily married for 45 years, so do I think it's a hate crime?

Irony think its a hate crime but its nasty, the men should keep their whistles and remarks to themselves, there is no need to embarrass women in this way. I hated it when I was younger I think women should dress to please themselves and any woman deresting to attract a man is foolish and self centred not to say brainless.

sarahc if a young woman on her own tried your suggestions to deal with a group of aggressive young men who were abusing her they would almost certainly respond by doing exactly as she suggested.And the song might encourage them to put into practice the things they have suggested they would like to do to her.
As far as forbidden words go come and take a trip into the city centre late in the evening and listen to the language around you. There aren't any forbidden words and you might learn some expressions that are new to you.
Rosina No one should deliberately put themselves in a position where they are at risk, male or female.

@sarahc

Left wing nazis?

Sorry, I don't understand the last part of your post.

@Rosina

It doesn't make sense to leave your front door unlocked if you go out, but it doesn't excuse a burglar from walking in through your open door.

To pick up on a comment made earlier about girls and drunkeness; that is something that really does worry me. 'Having lived in a large town until a few years ago it was common late in the evening if we were leaving the theatre or a restaurant to see dozens of young people - all smarty dressed, not offensive, just noisy and having a good time, going up and down the High Street.

Among them though would be a few girls absolutely off their heads - presumably with alcohol - staggering about, falling down, and completely out of control. They would usually have nightclub type clothes - scanty and short - and it was not unusual to see their more sober friends trying to pull a slipping top up or a skirt down as they were falling about and showing a lot more than they should. We tried to help one girl who was flat out on the pavement but her friends said she was fine and they all staggered off. I wondered if they got home unscathed. When Joanna Lumley said a few years ago that women shouldn't put themselves into situations where they have no idea what is happening to them, she was shouted down by feminists. I would be interested to hear that Gransnetters think.

Footnote - terms like Hate Crime and the rest of the definitions we're supposed to adhere to that have been imposed on us by left wing nazis should be completely disregarded - there should now be a campaign to say all forbidden words, repeatedly whenever you get the chance - preferably in a public place, then ask any objectors, where they're wont be many as that is doing something, what they're going to do about it.

I didnt know they wolf whistled any more - but any un-wanted attention is intended to be intimidating and if it works the more they'll do it. The only answer is to give more back - such as staring fixedly at them (most males aren't used to it and dont like it) or shout "Show us your Dick love!" honestly any retaliation leaves them stunned. To add to the effect sing the following song loudly:
"I like a nice bit of c**k with my dinner, and nice bit of c**k with my tea and what goes down a treat you're right - is a nice bit of c**k the squeamish can replace the word C**k with Dick.

When I was young, I loved being in Spain, where every passing woman expected and accepted the "piropiro" - anything from a beautiful flowery compliment to the wolf-whistle. It was harmless, fun and flattering charming gesture and we were advised to take it in the manner it was meant - two or more girls out together were advised to pretend to ignore it, but smile and giggle to make sure that the men recognised that we were aware of the gesture. Haven't been back for years and it's probably now long-since lost or frowned upon as "misogeny", "hate crime" or somwthing equally silly!

Rod Liddle's got issues. Here's his take. Some people won't find it funny. It is OTT but he has a point.

I'd just be a bit miffed if I thought they were being sarcastic!

@oldperson

Work on the misogyny project began in 2014. The new acting female Chief Constable didn't take up her role until 23 June 2016.

www.nottinghampost.com/nottinghamshire-police-chief-constable-leave-role/story-29248893-detail/story.html

I agree thatbags, but if the men who target women find they enjoy causing upset and fear they may progress to frightening others and then if challenged commit assaults. I am not suggesting all wolf whistles should be dealt with, just that if someone reports an incident to the police because of fear there should be some way of dealing with it. At present only repeated incidents are worth reporting.

@thatbags

It obviously isn't unwanted by some women, but others don't like it. I didn't and I know my daughter doesn't. Young men need to be told that 'no' means 'no' and that includes wolf whistling.

The man who wolf whistled the girl in the article said, 'I'm sure if she walks past again and she is lucky she will get wolf-whistled again.' He hasn't learnt anything, even though he now knows his wolf whistles were unwanted.

If she's lucky? I don't think so! The arrogance of him to think that she would be flattered by an idiot like him. Hopefully she has more self-respect.

Some of the comments on that DM article are quite enlightening. Hardly any of them criticise the male, but there are plenty who make further misogynistic comments about her. The comments on Twitter were worse, calling her a 'slut', 'an ugly bitch' and 'lucky if she ever gets one up her' and the like.

I agree with you, thatbags, about attacks, but they would be dealt with as assault/ABH/GBH. It would appear that calling a female a slag or a slapper isn't a crime, whereas calling somebody a name related to religion, race, disability or sexual orientation is. That seems to be the issue and it's getting worse.

DD was wolf whistled at when out walking with her dad...she stopped and took a bow! got a big cheer from the builders but DH was mortified.

She also blows kisses at any irate drivers who gesticulate rudely at her driving.

This child can't be mine...must have taken the wrong one home from hospital!

That would certainly be a consideration, trisher.

The problem, it would seem from a lot of posts on this thread, is that it cannot be assumed that wolf whistling or cat calling, even if unsought, is unwanted. Obviously, causing a woman to feel frightened is a different matter altogether.

I often felt scared when out alone when I was a young woman. I think young men often do too. They also get attacked in the street more often than women do. Not that that's any excuse, but it's not a one-sided problem, this thing about men frightening people.

thatbags my DSs girlfriend considered this but felt that her phone would probably be taken from her and she might be injured.

Far from being unable to speak groups of young men do use language that would never have been even considered when you were young, including graphic descriptions of sexual acts. Could you have coped,with this not in the protected atmosphere of a work place but alone on a street?
As far as the wolf whistling goes I believe dealing with this would produce a result much like what happened in New York with the introduction of Zero tolerance. A fall in crime figures particularly sexual assaults.

@daphnedill

Campaigning for more police officers in Nottingham would be futile.
It was announced early last year that up to 70 PCSO,s would be shed (redundancy,retirement etc) and would not be replaced.

Despite over 20,000 people signing a petition offering to pay more council tax

Unfortunately Nottinghamshire has plenty more serious crime but she is a new Chief Constable and I guess wants to make her mark. Tackling the increase in knife crime would be better.
When I was young - a few weeks ago - I was flattered by wolf whistles. I worked in the textile trade where language was colourful to say the least. Comments could be crude but it was never meant to be taken seriously and you just told the speaker what he could do! I find it very sad that young women can't cope with this behaviour. I feel sorry for the young men who probably daren't speak.

Just wondering (in general, not about the Poppy case)... if a young woman didn't like being whistled at or having comments shouted at her from a building site, what if she were to get her smart phone out and switch on the videoing thingy for a few seconds and then walk on? Might it act as a deterrent? Especially if it happened to her more than once.

I'm thinking about ways of being less of a victim and more proactive in changing attitudes/behaviours one doesn't like. See Times article as well on this approach. Not everyone can come up with a quippish retort, but the filming or photographing might just get the message of stick it in your pipe...

What do people think?

So what about this. Some years ago, when feeling a bit miserable, I was wolf-whistled as I walked past a building site. Quite perked me up until I heard his mate say "cor mate, you ain't fussy are you" Back to gloom again, worse than the wolf-whistle, but amusing in retrospect.

Some men are ignorant and arrogant. So, indeed, are some women. I would never suggest that any woman who is raped was asking for it but a lot of young women give the impression that sex is on their agenda. I'm not saying that women shouldn't dress in fashionable clothes or go out and have a good time but if you dress in a skirt so short that it's obvious you're not wearing underwear (seen it on TV) and your breasts are barely covered and you get so drunk you can't stay on your feet, you are putting yourself at risk.

@thatbags

Having looked at the definition, you're right. Interesting, because it means that behaviour towards somebody because of their gender isn't classified as a 'hate incident'.

Now I understand what this is all about. The question is whether misogyny or misandry should be classified as 'hate incidents', in the same way as comments about disability or race, etc would be.

It's strange in a way, because gender would be an issue in the work place, etc, where the Equality Act applies.

This was the builder's reaction:

A builder who wolf-whistled a young woman only to be accused of sexual harassment said today she is a 'silly little girl' who was 'lucky' to have received the attention.

Ian Merrett, 28, is astonished that Poppy Smart, 23, did not take it as a compliment, which he says has helped him 'snog loads of girls' in the past.

The builder and his colleagues whistled at her every day for a month as she passed their Worcester construction site.

Miss Smart, who compared the wolf-whistling to racial discrimination, eventually filmed them and asked West Mercia Police to investigate alleged sexual harassment.

Mr Merrett admits it was probably him whistling but called Miss Smart a 'silly little girl' who should never have gone to the police.

He said: 'I'm sure if she walks past again and she is lucky she will get wolf-whistled again. I have wolf-whistled so many girls and got so many birds and snogged so many girls off the back of that, and never had a complaint before. But I've got a girlfriend so need to be careful what I say'.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3060520/It-s-parcel-working-site-reputation-s-damaged-Builder-wolf-whistled-pretty-girl-says-s-lucky-happen-won-t-say-girlfriend.html

Quite frankly, I'd rather have another kind of 'man' to one who thinks a wolf whistle from somebody like him is a compliment.

That's the definition from the CPS. I'm assuming gender is part of sexual orientation for legal purposes. It doesn't use the word gender.