Scotland/Sturgeon

Not normally Obi she's usually hard hitting but truthful. Not sure where she's coming from at the moment as she is truly stuck between the proverbal rock and...

I think she's probably having to turf stamp.

Both referenda were swayed by heart over head and the fact that no one could clearly say what would happen if the vote was 'in' or 'out'

There was an interesting discussion about the EU, England and Scotland on the radio yesterday. They were discussing the available options and outcomes. One option was exactly what I said I though could happen, and would probably keep Scotland in the UK.

I quote Myself :-

"The voting paper was very clear Leave or remain, no more details than that.

So it would be quite within the definition for us to leave the EU but continue to be part of the single market AND accept full freedom of movement of labour. Not what the leave campaign intended, but there was not that qualification on the voting paper."

One GNer said :- "Please back up that statement,gand. That's the first time I've heard it. It sounds like nonsense"

We shall see

What I can't understand is why if Scotland wants to be an independent country, free from the shackles of England,it wants overnight to be straight into the arms ( shackles) of the EU, complete with the euro?!! Funny sort of freedom I'd have thought!!!

Yes, that is a conundrum nigglenellie

'We don't want to be ruled by the elite in Westminster' could therefore become 'we want to be ruled by the elite in Brussels together with all that entails'.

I suspect that the Scots still see England as the bad guys, starting back in he 18th century.

Yes, that one does need to be thought through.

I think it's part of the Scottish pysche that, after a rather contentious and violent shared history (remember Bannockburn then remember Culloden) there is a dislike of being under the thumb of Westminster. Quite understandable historically despite the fact that it was King James VI of Scotland who became King James 1 of England.

But then to prefer to cede power to the EU? .

And according to the history books grabbed the first horse he could get to ride to London.
There is a lot of sabre rattling going on over the EU referendum and the possibility of another Independence one. I would advise her to wait and see what happens with our negotiations first and then decide which way to jump.

Which is really ceding powers to Germany, when you think about it.

Apparently.after becoming king of England, James only visited Scotland on one occasion in 1617. Charles 1st and 11 seemed equally reluctant!
I agree that N.S would do better to wait and see what Brexit brings and then decide accordingly as to what is best for Scotland. No way can they ever completely run themselves so it'll have to be the UK or EU, either way it can never be true independence. I wonder if this fact will be pointed out to the Scots?

The last post was one of the most patronising things I have ever read, are you assuming the Scots are too stupid to look after themselves ?
Perhaps a closer look at Scottish history not the British when great and Scottish when not should be taught in English schools.
Ah of course you education system changes so often I am surprised anything is taught.
Going back to James V1 is not really relevant is it.
Enjoy watching your television, taking your penicillan and enjoy your English UNELECTED Prime Minister.

Quite a few Scots are not impressed at all by Sturgeon. A lot of what she says is wishful thinking and always, behind everything, is the independence agenda. They never made an adequate economic case last time and certainly can't this time. The SNP lobby are heart over head every time. God knows who would actually pay for their long held vanity project of independence for Scotland. Will sit back and wait for outburst from SNP grans!

Not patronising just plain fact! as stated by Jane10. True independence means exactly that, currency, defence, economy, everything, run entirely by the independent country, not the UK not the EU. We elect a party to run the country, who runs that party is up to the party concerned not the country. I believe you have the same system in Scotland.

"Scottish history not the British"

I don't understand this, felice. Scotland is part of Britain whether it's part of the UK or not. So Scottish history, even when separated from English history is still British history.

The Picts and Gaels were all British (Celts originally).

Ethnolinguistically thought to be Celtic is how Wiki puts it.

Yes, the leader of the political party with the most elected MSPs at Holyrood becomes the Scottish First Minister, just as the leader of the majority Westminster MP party becomes Prime Minister.

In both cases, whoever it is has been elected in the same way as all other M(S)Ps.

In neither case is a presidential type election necessary.

Why shouldn't Scotland prefer the 'shackles' of the EU - which must be one of the silliest opinions I've heard on GN There are no shackles. Countries do as they think best within some rules which you need to organise so many people.

If the UK respect the free movement of peoples as well as goods and services then they can have their old trade agreements. Just that! it won't be cheaper rather dearer.
You can't do that amount of trade with everyone needing Visas, every lorry driver or research student.

The euro?!!!! and that's only for starters. Scotland's welcome!!!

Why shouldn't Scotland prefer the 'shackles' of the EU - which must be one of the silliest opinions I've heard on GN There are no shackles. Countries do as they think best within some rules which you need to organise so many people.
Oh dear, not just on GN then, but the opinion the majority of the British people, if not the Scottish part of the UK.

whether I agree or not is irrelevant, the majority have spoken, silliest opinions or not.

You all may prefer to pay 500,000 Lire for a handbag in Florence but I prefer the Euro. In fact I would prefer more Euros as the pound Sterling is going to cost me hundreds of Euros in lost pension.
You voted Brexit and I'm paying for it. Thx.

I have more important things to worry me than the price of a handbag!! The euro is a micky mouse currency as is the EU, and this country is right long term to steer well clear of the whole wretched business. There is a world out there and we're far better to cast our net further than the potential disaster of the EU.

How long have you lived in Germany?

Not sure what your post has to do with Scotland/Sturgeon

I agree with Jane10. I think she indulges in wishful thinking.

I dont get why a referendum on Scotland is acceptable by most, and an EU one is no, by millions of people. Or have the majority accepted it now.

not