Brexit watch, round 2

roses,

A school can't go a year without a teacher. Approximately a third of language teachers in the UK are EU nationals. The rules will have to be changed quite drastically, if they're going to be allowed to stay. Currently, they would have to earn £35k as a non-EU national to be allowed to stay in the UK. Most classroom teachers don't earn that much. The UK has a reciprocal arrangement with some countries, such as Australia and NZ, for temporary visas. Yet another thing to be negotiated!

PS. The problem is teachers' pay and the negative attitude many parents, schools and pupils have towards language teaching and, in some places, negativity towards all things foreign. Foreign nationals often get a very rough ride!

If a points system does come in, and language teachers are needed, then there is no problem. If schools have been trying ( unsuccessfully) for over a year to appoint them, well, we were in the EU, so the problem was something else.

Nobody is being sent home (to country of origin in the EU) all can stay, that are already here, that has been made clear.

politics.us3.list-manage.com/track/click?u=f5ab5efdb629954eb1b8df87b&id=4d1b01392d&e=f5e4f66f33

There is no access to the single market.
Brexiters were having you on, or telling lies as I prefer to put it.

My Spanish daughter in law is teaching the sons of some of those who voted Leave in Sunderland.
I wonder if they realised that they were voting for her to go back home. There aren't that many language teachers around in the North East. I know schools that have been trying to appoint language teachers for over a year.

Fingers crossed about Ukip! They certainly have the North East in their sights. Let's just hope the voters don't decide that none of the rest have done anything, so they might as well vote for somebody new. One of the main gripes seems to be that they're being controlled by an elite from London - as if that's better than an elite in Brussels. Ukip is one of the reasons I really wish Labour would get its act together and stop behaving like a bunch of custard pie throwing schoolkids.

Like Gracesgran says, you need to read the whole article.
We can paste just about every paragraph into here and comment on it.

'If politics was done solely by numbers, there should have been no contest in the north-east. The region is the most dependent on EU funding of any English region – from the new aquatics centre on the old colliery site, to the university near the old shipyards, and the very fish quay building from where the fisherman lament the EU. The leave campaign promised the funding will be maintained, saying it is merely rerouted UK taxpayer funds, but the dependence will move to Westminster to continue this funding.'

From the article linked to by Gracesgran.

Leave definitely promised the funding will be maintained.
The next two paragraphs are interesting, too. The North East has the smallest proportion of immigrants in the UK, so why did they vote on immigration if it wasn't to do with Farage's poster campaign?

I agree, Gracesgran, there are going to be some very disappointed people in the North East.
I just hope they take it out on the right people, and do not elect UKIP, who have absolutely no relevance now.

I don't think people who voted Leave do have a single view on what they wanted. I think it was Tegan who wrote that Vote. Leave approached the referendum like a marketing campaign and came up with reasons for different groups of people. Now those at the top have to reconcile those demands and there are bound to be many people who will be bitterly disappointed, because they're not going to get what they thought they were voting for.

From the article about Sunderland...

'With that position came lifelong employment and job certainty. I ask if he thinks leaving the EU might bring back the shipyards and the pits: “We’d like to think so.”'

They might as well 'like to think' that the clouds will start raining gold coins! The shipyards, pits and steelworks have gone. I doubt if the UK even has the skills to re-open shipyards and pits now. We'd have to import skilled workers to show us what to do.

There are going to be years, if not decades, of negotiations and people jostling for position and stating their claim for funding. The British really need to watch their backs, because it won't be the EU doing the stabbing, but the handful of people in the UK in a position to exploit the situation. Sadly, the voters have given them control.

theconversationuk.cmail20.com/t/r-l-wtlkttt-iudkikukhu-z/

How reliant we are on EU migrants.
That's what matters now.
Why do we need more information about how the remain and leave campasign performed?
What we need are real numbers to show us how we will be affected if leave get what they wanted.
Strangely enough, there is nobody at the top who is willing to tell us, because they do not know.

To compare the difficulty of one spouse divorcing another (and that took six years to reach an unsatisfactory result) with the siesmatic breakup you voted for is to make a gross under-estimate of the damage the Leave vote has done.

Well I've watched Michael Dougan.Do I regret my Leave vote?Absolutely not.Do I feel angry with how the !eave campaign was fought? actually it was pretty irrelevant to how I voted.
From Professor Dougan I kept hearing was 27 member states.27.(There were 12 member states in 1991) ' Every one of the 27 member states must ratify '.That's why I voted Leave.
Did I think exiting the EU would be easy? NO.Although it's certainly going to be more protracted and difficult than most people thought.But then so was my SILs divorce.It took 6 long years of negotiation, celebrity divorces came and went,and still an agreement couldn't be reached because her not so DH made it as hard as possible.Delaying meetings and court appearances,stalling at every turn.Even the final agreement on her house,held in some trust,I would not have accepted.But he wore her down.Does she regret going through the process and divorcing. Absolutely not,after a rough few years she's far happier and the reality is should have extricated herself long ago.
Perhaps Professor Dougan could also critique how the Remain campaign was pitched, and I mean that genuinely,and examine why they got it so wrong and didn't manage to convince enough of the undecided electorate in the run up to the Referendum that staying in the EU was in our best interests in the long term.As a very erudite and measured man he can examime the Remain campaign thoroughly .He is an expert in the field of EU law.We have been EU members from 41 years as he reminded us.In reality that's a fraction of time in the history of our country .And much I respect and like other European countries,love lots of aspects of European culture and have friends in other EU countries I am British and don't want 27 other member states involved in our governance.

This article is one of the saddest I have read. The poor people mentioned at the end still believe that the promises the Brexit leaders made where based on any sort of reality.

“I would go mad if this money doesn’t go into the NHS, I will go mad. I want to be assured that this money – because that’s why I voted to come out,”

There is much more and it is worth reading the whole article.

MargaretX I didn't see the programme but just to clarify the situation about health cover. People of state retirement age living in all other EU countries (not just France) get their health cover under a reciprocal arrangement. This means that the "competent state" i.e. the one to which you have paid contributions during your working life and from whom you receive a state pension, makes an annual payment to your country of residence. If Germany is your competent state and if you retired to the UK then a payment would go from Germany to the UK.
It does not apply to people who have worked and paid contributions to their country of residence before retirement.
If this system does not remain in place post Brexit then as it stands people resident in France in a regular fashion (residing and paying taxes) for more than five years would receive health cover by paying 8% of their income above a 10,000€ baseline.
Personally I think the petition about all this is premature. That is what the negotiations are for.

Laura Kuenssberg showed us people who were getting a good deal from the EU and a rotten deal from the UK government boasting about voting to get out of the EU and give back control to the government they hate. She never pointed out how illogical that was,

Sorry, who's being superior and arrogant?

Yes, it was, almost but not quite!

Roses I was grinning from ear to ear watching that programme. It was lovely watching them all squirm knowing that we all know what they think of us and never realising that the worm could turn. It was almost as good as independence morning all over again.

Having watched the programme with Laura Kuennesberg ( Brexit) it would appear that the Remain Camp had that same vein of arrogance and superiority, and it lost them the vote.

Does Professor Dougan post on Gransnet? Wow! I didn't know that!

No ww this thread may watch with close interest, but mainly it will vecome a vehicle for all sorts of patronising and ill informed rants about the fact that we have left ( or will shortly be leaving to be precise) the EU.I think that the post by washerwoman was spot on, and there is a rich vein of arrogance and superiority in many posts by a few posters who think they know everything there is to know ( and plainly don't.)

This one?

www.youtube.com/watch?v=USTypBKEd8Y

He did another one after the result...

news.liverpool.ac.uk/2016/07/01/watch-professor-michael-dougan-assesses-uks-position-following-vote-leave-eu/

Does anyone remember the video made by the lecturer in law - it was about 20 minutes long - too long for some I know, but blimey how his words are sooooo right. Of course he was an e xpert and knew nothing!

As an expat I was shocked to read of the situation in France. As the wife of a German I have my own health insurance and am not dependent on payments from the NHS.

I can feel for those people in France having to leave their houses which they have so lovingly restored.
I wish them well but feel that their lobby is just not large enough as expats in Germany have been told by Fr Merkel that they can stay and take dual nationality. They are also not so numerous.

And Hastings!