Brexit watch, round 2

Love Gibraltar. They've got the best M&S ever. I think I've queued every time I've been there.

The last time we went it was on the anniversary of the referendum when the Gilbratese voted resoundingly in favour of continued British sovereignty and most of the shops were shut. However, it was a great day.

I feel that we've let them down

We don't very often go into our bank, but last time our 'personal banker' (how posh is that?) was so helpful. We learned later that she had been made redundant. This would have been about 2 or 3 months ago.

I'm listening to Any Questions. Interesting question from from the audiance: why did Cornwall vote overwhelmingly to leave the Eu when they have very low immigration and receive a lot of money from the eu. Mmmmm, let me think. So it had nothing to o with money or immigration, could it be sovereignty?

Thanks for putting me straight on Gibraltar! I had no idea the border was shut for nearly nearly twenty years. I thought it was much less as In the 1980s I knew someone living in Spain and working in Gibraltar. She was German so perhaps that made things easier?!

I don't know, petra, could it be that the EU money does not go where it is really needed?
Or perhaps it is something to do with the decimation of the fishing industry out of Newlyn? Although some the fishermen who have survived export to the EU nowadays

Or perhaps it could be a feeling of disaffection at the huge escalation in house prices? The 'haves' coming down from London, buying up property as second homes, pushing up prices, turning lovely fishing villages into ghost towns out of season; when the 'haves' from London come down with car boots full of food and don't shop locally?

I read that many places with little immigration voted leave out of a sort of fear that they would have immigration in the future and it was fear of the unknown. When I lived in Cornwall over 40 years ago it was still full of holiday cottages and most of the people I knew were from other parts of the country.

I, personally think that a lot of people just used their leave vote to complain about things that annoyed them, many of which were nothing to do with the EU.

Both Wales and Corwall voted leave and bother were net gainers from the EU budget. Cornwall was the first to ask that they still received the EU grant funding.
With regards to the fishing industry I read that many fishermen who received quotas sold theirs to bigger companies and even other countries. I would not like to do that dangerous job at all so from that point of view I do not blame them a bit - however if that is true then they should stop complaining.

Don't believe all you read Welshwife, there was a lot of heartache in Cornwall in the fishing industry, and of course it had a knock-on effect on the jobs and careers of people whose jobs relied on that industry, not just the fishermen.
However, for the enterprising there was always work to be found as more and more of the super-rich bought yachts.

All the people I know who voted leave, all did so because of the EU.

It suits some to imagine that those who voted to leave did so for reasons unconnected with the EU - or that they're all racist bigots who wanted to haul up the drawbridge!

Why and how Ana?

Tegan- a lot of areas more used to immigration than most voted strongly to Leave.Bradford,Rochdale,Bolton,Bury,Birmingham to name but a few plus where I live.We were one of the first towns to welcome the first wave of large numbers of immigrants post war,notably a big Bangladeshi community ,and lots of the Caribbean and Polish community.Many were colleagues when I first started work in the early seventies and our council has been very pro-active with cross cultural events.A big Mela in the park every year that's very popular with families from every background.The Festival of Light annually to celebrate Diwali parades through the town and gets a lot of support.Amongst the Leave voters I know it's certainly not fear of immigrants. We're so used to different cultures here certainly none of my friends or family thinks twice about it.Our town centre is a melting pot .Plus we have a great choice of restaurants from Turkish to Georgian and fab curry houses to choose from.
The signs you saw in North Yorkshire were regrettable, and that sort of thing did not inform my vote Leave.So maybe the more rural areas did have more fear of change ?

I did see a programme a while ago which suggested that communities with large immigrant populations from the sub-continent were unhappy with the more recent waves of immigration - hardworking, high achieving people who had been here quite a long time.
However, the programme was quite a while before the referendum.

I live in a fairly rural area and it voted to Remain. More densely populated areas not so far away voted to Leave.

The map for remain showed London, and the M4 corridor plus Scotland on the whole.
Rest Leave.
If I remember correctly.

although Swindon area (M4 corridor) voted Leave (and they have a car plant there)

It was a bit more patchy than that, I think obieone
Parts of Bristol voted remain but surrounding areas leave.

ig.ft.com/sites/elections/2016/uk/eu-referendum/#

Full map and count here.
I think you'll find a few more areas voted to remain, obie, such as York, Leeds,and Harrogate even.

www.cer.org.uk/publications/archive/policy-brief/2016/if-uk-votes-leave-seven-alternatives-eu-membership

Can't say we were not warned how difficult it would be if we voted to leave.

There are so many reason to stay and so many to go, perhaps there isn't a pattern. Friends with children living in Europe did tend to vote Remain - but not all of them, but apart from that it was pretty random. Many settled Poles here voted out because of over immigration fears.

Although that said West Norfolk overwhelmingly Brexit apparently because of the fiddle over pickers/packers on the fruit and veg farms. Apparently jobs are advertised only in the Eastern European countries through agencies based there. Therefore the rates of pay are fixed in the country of origin, not here. There's a lot of resentment that locals don't get a look in. But this is all conjecture.

Thank goodness for Brexit,, but for that we'd still have the former government, and have signed up for Hinkley C without a second thought! Saved by the bell I'd say!!

@NfkDumpling

Do the locals really want to pick cabbages?

That sort of thing was going on long before the UK joined the EU. One of my sisters was a manager in West Norfolk NHS and there used to be care workers/nursing assistants who had come from countries such as Greece and were originally employed by 'gang masters'. They were paid a fraction of the going rate and housed in caravans or substandard housing. They could hardly speak English, so it was difficult for them to find a job independently, but when their languages skills improved, they quickly learned that they were better paid working for the NHS.

It must be something about Norfolk

It's strange that Leicester voted to remain, as it's one of the most multi-cultural cities in the country outside London.

Nfk.Out walking with friends last week and one of them mentioned her friends whom I've heard of,but don't know personally , and she was updating me on theIr opening of a cafe in a nearby town.The wife is English and her husband is Slovakian, and she was telling me he had just returned from Slovakia after a weeks trip to recruit staff. I guess Italian ,Chinese and Indian restaurants have traditionally staffed with family and contacts ,and I'm not saying they shouldn't.But when I asked her if they had advertised any of the positions locally she said .'No ,not at all, no-one would want to work the hours or put in the effort he felt.'Well between degrees my DD worked her socks off in a cafe for several months.I had gone in for a coffee and by chance saw the notice go up they were recruiting,it was a well known chain,rang her and within the hour she was down in town,secured an interview and got the job.They were so impressed with her that every summer they found hours for her,and she started her 2 nd degree with a sizeable chunk of money in the bank.It can work both ways.But not all our youngsters are work shy and unwilling to put in long hours.

As did Bradford and Birmingham and many other towns with a long tradition of welcoming immigrants.Not as strange as you'd think .NFK is right that some of the immigrants already settled here are as likely to have voted leave because they feel a sudden influx of new immigrants in areas that have previously been very tolerant and welcoming will stir up tensions,.And as the first wave of Caribbean and Asian and Polish arrivals post war actually experienced more casual and inherent racism on a day to day basis than I think happens nowadays,ironically many of them have voted Leave.And I've been told that several people,Polish and Indian,we know.

I thought Birmingham and Bradford voted to leave.