Brexit watch, round 2

I like to hear from posters like gj who have such an international insight, especially when they have friends and family from a wide age group. Following the many Brexit threads, I've thought a couple of times that members living abroad are sometimes given a rough ride because they don't live in the UK. It comes over to me as a weird kind of inverted snobbery.

I agree Wilmaknickersfit,

In my earlier post I wrote that I thought there would be a compromise and that several posters have mentioned a Brexit...in fact,I meant to write Brexit lite.
Much goes on behind closed doors,and always has.
Some will be angry whatever the outcome,but I am hopeful that an agreement can be reached that will be accepted by the majority.
There has to be some flexibility on both sides now that the vote is out.

That's how I see it. Not in terms of black and white for leave and remain, but grey to make the best deal.

paola this is the latest information about the border from the BBC website -

Border between Ireland and NI

Daphnedill

I have never felt European, but have clearly seen your commitment to it over the past weeks.
I find your insistence that there would never be further integration 'unless the people wanted it' to be very trusting.I expect that 'the people' would have very little say on the matter.
I must point out to you that I have spoken against expansion /integration and not solely integration.I do not believe the EU is yet complete.

The European Social Survey rates the UK,s level of trust in the EU as the lowest out of 20 participating countries ,though Greece does not feature.

Petra 10s of 1000s indeed- our local border points lead from France into Switzerland, then back into France and the direct routes to the Alps and Italy from UK- the flow of British cars is constant- and not just during ski and key holiday seasons either. Both neighbours confirm that they see dozens out of season a day, and 100s during ski and Summer.

Thank you Wilma and Granny- I re-read that post last night about 'fingers in all the pies' and it is indeed very unpleasant, rude even- but hey ho.

theconversation.com/the-unforeseen-cost-of-brexit-customs-62864

So much for brexit removing red tape.

Well if people hadn't made that connectiondj they had very short memories, or hadn't thought it through.

There will be loads of it. Airway, shipping, hauliers etc etc.

We've then got to decide whether to bring back purchase tax (remember that?) or retain VAT - which is in effect a European tax.

Excise duties of course. Booze cruise anyone?

Welshwife, many of the Eddie Stobbart lorries that come through our border points here have French or other foreign number plates now. I always wave when I see them ;)

www.theguardian.com/education/2016/jul/23/erasmus-scheme-exclude-british-students-brexit

This is what was feared.

@Granny2016

I find a vote based on some paranoid fear, which is going to cost the country and individuals dearly in all sorts of ways, very misguided. I would have been able to understand the result more easily if there had been some advantages to the UK, but I'm yet to discover them.

The fact that the UK's trust in the EU says more about the British than it does about the EU. There has been along-standing view that the UK has been aloof and not committed.

@dj

Yes, I know. My son is gutted, because his sister, who is just five years older, was able to benefit from an Erasamus programme and he was looking forward to one.

Saying someone has 'fingers in a lot of pies' is not meant to be unpleasant or rude granjura, in fact you have said yourself how involved you are with your community and the wider community in so many ways. I did say it was interesting to hear from the 'horse's mouth' ( ie your neighbours who are customs officials) their views on the 8 hour queues at Dover.

However, I do find their attitude towards those unfortunate families unpleasant and spiteful if indeed they are so gleeful -particularly as many of those people are probably not Brexit voters, and are stuck with young families in the heat. It does not serve them right as another poster thinks.
The other thing that puzzles me is that I presume the officials (your neighbours) are Swiss and not in the EU.

Presumably it's OK for people to feel positively gleeful at the situation but not for anyone else to comment that it is a childish and spiteful reaction.

How many people in the queue were also upset at the referendum result themselves or were in fact Europeans trying to get home again?
I would have thought the queue was more to do with the recent atrocities combined with inefficiency and was not a reason for people to gloat.

Daphnedill
I was shaking my head in disbelief yesterday at your post regarding those caught up in the traffic.I read it out to my DH who also shook his head in disbelief.Possibly one the the kindest men you could ever meet who would have offered you his last sandwich and bottle of water were he in the car alongside you.Regardless of you race,religion or political inclinations.And I've witnessed that when caught up in a similar situation in a small, broiling hot, overcrowded airport when an airline went bust.
Instead of posting I went and did some gardening and chatted with my lovely neighbours,who I know voted differently to me,but who I also know would help us out in a heartbeat,as would we.I'm genuinely sorry referendum result has upset you so much,and that you've broken your wrist and I hope it's on the mend.I didnt vote leave to personally offend you.I only wonder what other things you would wish for me to suffer as a result of my voting Leave?Please don't bother to list them.I already knew my modest private pension may take a hit -but then again may well recover- with several more years than expected to work due to shifting state pension ages I accept that life deals some ups and downs.I would have hated to be sat in that traffic. But rather that than be caught up in a major atrocity, as we have witnessed two in the last week and is the primary reason for the extra border checks.And yes it beggars belief at peak holiday time border control staff numbers were wholly inadeaquate.And if it is a deliberate ploy by French customs to ' punish' us shame on them and speaks volumes and smacks of bullying.
Duramjen.Although I read the Telegraph, and Times at the weekend I do look at the Guardian and Independent on line when I have time,so will read your links later.This weekend there were positive articles regarding major drugs companies commuting to remain in the UK and funding research.Plus a letter from a leading oncologist and professor at LSE endorsing retreat from the EU and how it will will bring major benefits.For every negative article I could find you a positive but I'm not sure that's of interest?
Have a good and safe day.Everyone.

.

It happens every year. You would think that people with young children would think twice about trying to get to the continent on the first weekend of the school holidays. There are six weeks.
Whatever the queue was to do with, this is what Brexiters have voted for, tighter controls at borders. You cannot have tighter controls without inconvenience to yourselves as well as others. It's fact. They also voted for less red tape, but there is going to be more, and freight gets across to the continent in exactly the same way.
Many people also voted for the government to spend less on staff. I expect they meant except when they are travelling.

By the way, I am just saying what others think.

Have you broken your wrist as well, daphne?

We used to see miles and miles of traffic jams on some French roads when the French school holidays started and many people trekked south.
We were always going the other way, school finishing earlier in the UK.

There may be six weeks but parents have to fit their holidays around their colleagues who may also have children.
There is not always a choice with both parents working in many cases.

'However, I do find their attitude towards those unfortunate families unpleasant and spiteful if indeed they are so gleeful -particularly as many of those people are probably not Brexit voters, and are stuck with young families in the heat. It does not serve them right as another poster thinks'
..I know it's not the same thing but it makes me think of how I felt with all of the 'we want our country back' posters [and huge billboards]that I saw in Yorkshire [especially round Fountains Abbey] that all of the foreign tourists were driving past and seeing. I can't imagine what impression it gave them of our country and it has soured Yorkshire for me as I can't get the images out of my head.

Oh dear Daphnedill,

I voted for MANY reasons.
Without going far into personal details....
I live on royalties which are based heavily on sales across the EU .I voted to leave expecting a reduction in my income and with a possible need to seek work elsewhere.I most CERTAINLY did not vote lightly.
From my home,I can travel 20 minutes to the city,where I can visit an art gallery which received £2 million of EU funding, a PRIVATE cinema which received £3 million,or I can sit in the council square,revamped with £2.5 million for new slabs,flower beds and a water feature.
If I travel 20 minutes in a different direction I reach an area with high unemployment and benefit claiming ,cheap housing,and many social problems.
The council allocated £500,000 to help regenerate the shopping area and applied to the EU fund for the same.I have yet to hear if it has been granted.
There are charity shops,an end of line catalogue store,cheap shoes,cheap stationary,cheap sheets,curtains and bedding and one where you can have a sofa or cooker for a few pounds a week.
There are many areas like this in the UK.
It is no surprise to me that many people voted to leave the EU when they see funding allocated to what they perceive to be,vanity projects.

You and I rarely agree,but to accuse me of voting on paranoid fear is stooping very low.

Jalima, my neighbours were NOT gloating- but as they work with their French counterpart and know the 'way they tick' - said they thought it was a combined effect of added security due to Paris and Nice- but they were sure, having discussed it with French colleagues- that there was a substantial Brexit element there too- and that with the holiday dates being known so far in advance- they could have deployed more staff to Calais- had they wanted to.

Personally, having done that journey so many times- including with young children, and now DD1 and our GCs- I would not gloat and wish this on anyone- however they voted- and I have every sympathy with those families- it must have been dreadful- and our DD1 and GCs could easily have been in the queues. They decided ages ago to travel next week-end- and for the first time, to fly. All fingers crossed.

Being interested in lots of things- somehow sounds very different to 'oh my- fingers in all the pies' - truly. But yes, I am proud and delighted to have a very active life- learning every day, thanks.

Durhanjen,

I know of people who have spent time on the Erasmus programme,and found it very valuable,so I do see your concern.
There are countries in the programme who are not part of the EU.
Of course,it may not be as smooth,but is there not a chance that UK students could still participate in the scheme?

Participate in an exchange will always be possible for those with contacts in the right places, if funded by parents eg as with most issues, it is the 'poorest' and who will lose out.

No, Granny2016.
We voted out of the EU, remember.
Switzerland does not have Erasmus for the same reason. It has a similar scheme, but only rich people can use it as it costs a lot more to organise.
It's all in the article.
You cannot vote to be out of something, but then say you want to keep the bits that are beneficial to you.

Exactly! My daughter was fully funded, but the money came from the EU. There is absolutely no guarantee that the British government will replace the funding with all the other demands on the money which the UK will allegedly 'save' from leaving the EU. Although the university also ran exchange programmes with non-EU countries, she wouldn't have been fully funded and I couldn't have afforded to pay the extra.

Erasmus has also funded school age children for non-exchange programmes within the EU and runs courses for teachers.