sexist advertisment from Gap y

What really scares me is the fact that while some things have improved for women as a class, some things have gotten a whole lot worse, due largely to the pornification of our society.

It's driven by misogyny, doesn't matter how you dress it up that is the root cause. Look at how rape victims are treated to this day, what was she wearing, why did she walk home alone etc. There was a front page the other day that headlined how much a young, murdered woman had drunk the night she was brutally murdered. Out and out victim blaming.

Some of the coverage of the Olympics has been depressing, female judo fighters being called cat fighters, constant references to female athletes husbands and children etc.

We have a long way to go and attitudes need to shift for this to happen. As I said before we should be demanding more for our daughters and granddaughters.

www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-3726001/Men-don-t-fancy-clever-women-unless-attractive-Male-daters-line-sand-intelligence-turn-off.html

Of course bright women are bothered by that.

There is still a big problem with men not being attracted to very bright women. I think that that is a huge problem actually, and it is rarely talked about
(probably because it is so last century?)
Have to laugh!
Why should a bright woman be bothered? Are highly intelligent women attracted to the sort of man who would hold that point of view?
That sort of attitude I thought died out in the 50's!!

Cants stand r a t s. Spiders dont bother me unless they are huge and dark.

There is still a big problem with men not being attracted to very bright women. I think that that is a huge problem actually, and it is rarely talked about.

JessM. I think times have changed and there just isnt the attitude of being told in scholls that certain jobs are just for men, Could be wrong.
I do know form first hand experience however that some teachers have not heard of certain jobs, so how can they promote them at all to both sexes?

Well said as always Elegran it is incredible how many clearly miss the point that while equality has come a long way in the last 50 years, it still has a long way to go in some people's heads .
It is within living memory for all of us, surely, having to get husband's signature fior credit agreements, wife's salary not being taken into account for mortgage applications, women in leading roles in society, women clergy, equality in the professions....the list is endless. It's not rubbish about being called actor/actress or Mrs. that not only trivialises it, but misses the point altogether.
Equal does not mean identical but just as we now no longer tolerate the colour of a person's skin, or their religion being factors in their ability to function at the highest level, we have to ensure that gender is not an obstacle.

Yes, men and women are different. What feminism used to press for was that they should be allowed to take on the careers, occupations and lifestyles that they wanted, without being told by the establishment that they would not be permitted.

By establishment, I mean two things. First the legal, political, educational, church and business frameworks which barred women from getting degrees or apprenticeships for the "male" occupations, or becoming lawyers, doctors, and priests. They even had no control over their own money, all of it going under their husband's control as soon as they married, or their children - a husband could make decisions about their education and welfare without consulting his wife.

Then the social framework, which closed its eyes to men with mistresses but labelled those mistresses as "fallen women" and ostracised them (read the novel "The crimson petal and the white" by Micael Faber) and condemned "unladylike" leisure pursuits like cycling, which would render them unfit for bearing children, and probably excite their baser passions too (read the novel "While the world is still asleep" by Petra Durst-Benning)

Also the attitude of the "man-in-the-street", who knew what he wanted in a wife - one who had his meal on the table when he got home from work, didn't argue when he spent the evening in the pub or the club, was compliant when he came home and felt like a spot of nookie. Then there was the attitude of the slightly more well-off that it was an insult to him if his wife wanted to have a career, "Don't I make enough money for you?!"

Women are now admitted to the universities and the professions, they are equal financially and in law. They now (only recently) have equality in the church, that philanthropic institution whose founder stated that there was no differentiation between men nor women under God. They can do in law whatever job they choose to, they make family decisions, they are not to be discriminated against.

What takes a lot longer than the legalities is the residue of hundreds (thousands?) of years of social acceptance that might is right and leads, and the weaker follow. It was the norm that the "stronger" sex which made war and trained with weapons and beat the rebellion out of anyone who argued with them has the monopoly of certain behaviour and preferences, and the "weaker" sex, which bore and nursed the babies and made the meals and clothes had the monopoly of other traits.

The media and the retail trade, with their frilly pink for girls and their macho gear for boys are still continuing the stereotyping. Most children grow out of it, but it still lingers - how many (female) GNers were horrified at the tales on here of rats and spiders?

Feminism isn't saying women and men are the same biologically, quite the opposite, that's a straw man often used by anti feminists. Women are persecuted because of their biology. But you're probably right Marmark, it's all in women's heads, nothing to see here...

I'v got it now,you people genuinely feel inferior.thats why you don't like words like actress and Mrs.Well,you can have two people of the same sex that will be very very different to each other.That doesn't make one inferior. Even animals of the same species will have different traits.Isnt it a good thing?What a world where everyone was the same.

You can be sad if you want,I'm not.Im confident and happy.and I think men are lovely,sometimes.I think women are lovely,sometimes.and I think we are all better off working together,each doing what they do best,the best candidate for the job.

Sadly Marmark1 society does not treat girls and boys and women and men the same.

leemw711 Are you for real? such crassness I think your the one who should find somewhere else to post if you find Dickys posts offensive. This is the 21st century, not the 1800s.

Leemw711 - what an awful thing to say. Regardless of your opinion of Dickie's posts, he is still entitled to express his opinion. I thought the whole point of this forum was to encourage discussion. That way some of us might be influenced to see an alternative viewpoint. It seems that you feel discussion should be closed down if someone's view does not accord with your own. None of the participants on Gransnet deserve to be on the receiving end of such patronising arrogance, so perhaps you should be the one to rethink your responses or post on another forum.

I genuinely,I so mean genuinely,do not know what you feminist are on about,I am utterly sincere on this.My close family include three great nephews and one great niece and two god daughters,ages from 9-18,the youngest god daughter,boxes and plays for the local football team,my nieces friends include boys as well as girls,she knows without a doupt she will be an architect.My own GC are one of each,but they are treated exactly the same,they are both Thomas the tank mad,they share a train set.What is the problem.We have absolutely no doupt at all the little girl will have the same opportunities as the boy,why the hell shouldn't she.

What!!

I have been out all day being very sensible, what have I done?
(oh, flirting with G&Tea, well someone has to
He's a bit slow though, DH offered a whisky on our first date. I hate whisky.)

Science isn't really a girls subject is it miss?"
I can't think that can be true nowadays; there are as many, if not more, young women entering medicine as young men. Where I worked there was probably a fairly even number of women to men.

I agree that where manual strength is required, men for the most part have the edge, but not all engineering requires manual strength.

I can't get excited over this. If you don't like so-called gender stereotyping, ignore. Mothercare have been doing this for years.

Get your dgd a train set, and your nephew a doll if it bothers you.

And as for careers, there are plenty of female engineers and programmers out there. Female brickies are not si common, but twas ever thus.

Model sensible behaviour yourself and your dgs will hopefully follow suit.

I think Jess, like me, finds casual sexism hard to stomach. The same as casual racism, because it is so harmful and we should be asking, demanding, so much more for our daughters and our granddaughters.

I don't see any venom either. Opinions, yes. Views coloured by gender and upbringing, yes. But wenom is another thing entirely. If you want to see venom, look elsewhere.

!!!

Venom? I haven't seen any.

(Flirting, yes. (That jalima again! )

Still wondering why there are male and female members on here being so venomous about this topic.
It seems to me blindingly obvious that girls (and boys) choices in their careers are restricted by their gender and for no good reason. When I was a science teachers girls sometimes said "Science isn't really a girls subject is it miss?" My young friend A, when discussing her A level choices, told me that she had no idea what engineering and computers involved as a subject. This from a school that supposedly promotes STEM subjects. Most/all of those doing those subjects for GCSE were boys. She was going to opt for both Sociology and Psychology A levels until I jumped up and down. She swapped the Psychology for Chemistry and absolutely loves it.

I suspect some girls are interested in engineering at school and college where things are perfect. When they get into real world things are not always as pristine.
How many girls go into automobile engineering after seeing factories like Mclaren where you could perform surgery, only to find that the real world of most mechanics is very different.

Having worked in factories with mainly women operatives, I found they could give as good as they got, if not better, as I found when my tight trousers split in the middle of the assembly line.

Marmark1. I only joined a few days ago, but I post every day

My next door neighbour had children about the same time as I did I remember her saying her daughter was never going to have a train set. It is attitudes like that that promote such behaviour.

My dad had two daughters, after doing evening classes and getting certificates in mechanical enginering he eventually did teacher training.
My sister (the older child) had a train set and dad also introduced us, in an accesssible way, to the physics of centrifugal force, by showing us how to bank up the bends in the line with dominoes under the rails to stop the train spinning off on a bend.

He showed us about siphons and how they worked. I am sure that sort of unobtrusive "teaching" got my science interests going.

The lack of women brickies may have a lot to do with the appalling behaviour of many brickies towards any woman who dares to venture onto a building site.

Where have all the male BBC news presenters gone

Damn feminists must have got them!