Beginning to distrust Jeremy Corbyn

Jalima, apologies if I sounded combative, I didn't mean to. the point I was trying (and failing) to make was agreement that we need more skilled people. Apprenticeships are becoming better and more popular again which is necessary as we haven't been training our own young people, simply importing ready trained ones from other countries. That's whats happening in nursing, social work and medicine as well and as a country we need to invest in our own young people.

I didn't see Derek Hatton Anniebach. I've not been posting much but thanks to you and Daphne and others for the points your making

Talking of low IQ, I think Mr. Corbyn has this problem. He hides it under the cloak of Trotskyism and would be nothing without Momentum.
My neighbours children go to Adam's Grammar in Newport and tell me the School is very disappointed in Corbyn! He left without A levels, apparently, and they feel he has brought the School into disrepute. He was probably out of his depth there and regressed into what he is to-day.
Does all this matter?
"Give me the child and I'll give you the man"

Iam, it was frightening listening to Hatton , I have yapped on about that time but Corbyn devotees here either don't believe me or want the end of the Labour Party , some. Some to read up in the eighties and see Hatton is right.

We have Corbyn , the militants back in the party, and a Tory female PM who is as tough as thatcher was. So we are heading for riots , strikes , increase in crime . This is what Corbynites are voting for .

Beammeupscottie Wiki says Corbyn has 2 A levels E grade. Perhaps your GCs school doesn't like being associated with someone who has a history of left wing activism? Don't you approve of strikes Anniebach ? I would have thought you as a good Labour supporter would endorse the right of working people to withdraw their labour.

Trisher, either I am not explaining clearly or you are nit picking. Try this

30 years ago - got that ?
.

Female PM as tough as thatcher - got that?

1984/85 Miners strike - got That?

Families destroyed - got that

suicides - got that ?

Soup kitchens - got that ?

Communities destroyed - got That?

Mass unemployment - got That?

Tory government - got that ?

This is the thirty years ago Hatton is excited that Corbyn is taking us back to - got that ?

For all Corbyn devotees

Where the hell were you in the eighties ? Perhaps in the Tory party so your world was bliss ?

So let's all support a leader who voted against his party over 500 times and now whimpers - get behind the leader, work with me . - Don't do as I did, do as a say now

The Tory government is there already Anniebach you can't change that. And it is them you should be blaming for any strikes and for all the things that you have posted, not those who are supporting Corbyn. In answer to your question I was looking after young children, working part time and supporting the miners and their women's groups by collecting and donating. The idea that the strikes caused the long term unemployment and the resulting devastating effects on communities is not true. The closures were always planned and would have gone ahead anyway. So once again the Tories to blame. The only possible hope would have been if the other unions and the Labour party had supported the miners we might then have seen a more humane and better managed change. Who knows we might even have brought down a government?

Trisher, try again - yes the Tories were in government and labour was in the sodding wilderness, fourteen long years to get a labour government and this is what you are supporting . We need a labour government to prevent the horrors of the eighties again , but you seem to chose Corbyn over a labour government, watch Newsnight if it's on catch up , listen to Hatton , watch the three minute clip on utube of Kinnock speech 1985, read up on militants trying to deselect Frank Fields , suppose he isn't far left enough for you.

Anniebach Your posts are becoming increasingly rude and aggressive.

As you are aware - and were presumably aware when you initially supported Corbyn - he has consistently voted against policies which he - and others - believed were not in keeping with Labour party values, especially with regard to aggressive military action. Those that have campaigned vociferously against him include Tony Blair, Peter Mandelson (“intensely relaxed about people getting filthy rich” - supported "light touch" banking regulation) and Alastair Campbell who has been accused on many occasions of using intimidatory tactics to silence people.

As for the comment that Corbyn has a low IQ, what does the following exchange, which took place between Smith and Corbyn on 11 August, say about Smith's IQ:

Smith: I would offer you a job Jeremy

Corbyn: Would you serve in my cabinet then?

Smith: No, I have lost confidence in you.

Corbyn: Why would you offer me a job then?

With regard to Scotland, Corbyn is characterised as being representative of everything that has gone wrong in the Labour Party and this extends to blaming him for Labour being virtually wiped out by the SNP - despite the fact that Corbyn more accurately represents the feelings of the Scottish people on very many issues. In fact there are small signs of optimism. Labour has become the biggest party on North Ayrshire Council after taking a seat from the SNP. Nicola Sturgeon's father has lost his seat to Labour in Irvine west.

Anniebach. What is your evidence that Momentum has been set up to destroy the Labour Party? My impression from its activities in my area is that it is trying to find ways to keep the young people who have recently joined the Labour Party interested and enthused so that they don't get put off by the rather stolid hierarchical structure of a lot of constituency parties. Seems a good idea to me.

daphnedill just read your post about student loans and free university education. The interesting thing about loans was that the original intention was that the debt would be sold off by the government (Tory) and the money used to give tax breaks when an election came up. Unfortunately the repayment rates are now such that the debt is toxic and can't be sold. It still provides of course the illusion that we are not paying for further education.

Sorry, I dont understand about the repayment rates. What is wrong with them?

Ignore my posts Eloethan, you must have been so disgusted when the shadow chancellor called labour MP's f*****g losers

Celia , momentum is supporting a man who cannot win a general election and are planning to have good labour MP's deselected , you msy applaud this, I condemn it

Eleothan, we can expect a massive swing from the SNP to labour st the next election? Oh deary me

@trisher

I know student loans aren't directly relevant to the thread, but I'm interested in knowing whether promises of abolishing loans are actually achievable. They're more complicated than people think - they're not like a mortgage which must be repaid at some stage, but more like a graduate tax for those whose parents can't afford to pay for everything in advance. They're all smoke and mirrors.

obeoine when loans were introduced a figure of 28% was calculated as the amount that would not be repaid. The figure is currently around 45% an amount of around 48% is said to be a 'tipping point' when loans will cost more than grants did.
Smoke and mirrors is so right daphnedill. I'm not sure about abolishing them, it will probably seen as a move for the most privileged.

Thank you.
I actually thought the figure that is not getting repaid is about 70-75%
I certainly know plenty of people who do not earn enough to pay them back, and as they live in areas that are deemd poor, probably the wages will never be enough to meet the current threshhold for repaying.

Oh I see what you mean about loans costing more than grants. I hadnt thought about that at all. Hmm.

I wonder how much a student grant would be nowadays, if they were to be reintroduced? Surely not as much as the average student loan?

I don't know how much a grant would be now. The whole thing is such a complicated and grey area I don't think any politicians want to discuss it. I'm not even certain that the costs actually take into account the private companies who are involved in trying to collect payments. I was constantly sent letters and got phone calls about one of my DSs in spite of the fact that he was paying through his salary. I wondered if they were charging per call?

The system has changed this year, Ana. My son has just finished A levels and (possibly) going to university, so it's relevant to me.

Until this year, students could receive a means tested non-repayable grant of up to (about) £3250pa. They could also take out a loan to cover fees of £9000 and a further (about) £3000 for maintenance. My daughter also received an additional £1500pa non repayable bursary from her university. Therefore, she had approximately £7750pa for living costs. Her halls fees were £120pw. She just about managed on the money she had, although they were topped up with holiday work.

The new system means that students no longer receive any grants, but can take out the whole amount as a loan. The amount that the government is paying doesn't change and it is highly unlikely that the majority of students will ever pay back the full loan.

The loan covers fees AND maintenance, but a full grant would have to be as much as the loan taken out for maintenance - probably about £8000pa.

@trisher

"I'm not sure about abolishing them, it will probably seen as a move for the most privileged."

This was the LibDems' argument for agreeing to the rise in fees from £3000 to £9000. Apparently, the deal when they were in coalition was to swap student fees for the pupil premium, which is currently worth about £1000pa per pupil for the schools with the poorest pupils. The LDs were stupid not to get that message more into the media.

The theory was that the poorest pupils should be given more opportunity earlier in their lives.

Thanks daphne I knew things had changed since my youngest was at uni. There was also a change about the level of salary to repay loans I think. It was frozen at £21,000 in 2015, something students really complained about because it was applied retrospectively.