Beginning to distrust Jeremy Corbyn

Now there's a cry from the heart obi - yes I have noted what's been going on. Don't let her get to you and I'm sure Iam wouldn't join in if she realised the true situation.

Do you want to bully me too?

Another gem!

I suppose it begs the question as to how much influence a party in opposition has.

A split and divided opposition party would have even less influence I would have thought.

Listening to Margaret Becket on Today, she summed it all up so well - those who joined to vote for Corbyn and say they will leave if he is not leader are not interested in the party they are a fan club . So true. I have stuck with the Labour Party through good times and the wilderness years because I am a socialist and care for the party, I want the party to win power because the vunerable will still remain at the mercy of the Tories if we don't. it is now obvious the vunerable have more years under Tory power and we cannot do a thing as a party to stop them.

Just about sums it up trisher.
Far too many are of the 'do as I say' variety rather than the 'do as I do' sort.
Corbyn is a different type of indulgence to that but is not willing to compromise or be flexible- and too weak to stop many of the things that people do in his name.

It is claimed that Corbyn's overwhelming success in the leadership election last year was the result of registered supporters being allowed to vote. This, in turn, led to a suggestion that people with no regard for the Labour Party are now influencing the direction of the party.

In September last year the Independent reported:

"During the leadership campaign there had been some speculation that the left-winger [Corbyn] was receiving support mainly from people who had paid £3 to register as supporters from outside the party but not from full members.

"However, Mr Corbyn received 121,751 first preferences votes from full Labour members, well over double the number of his nearest rival Andy Burnham, who won 55,698. Yvette Cooper took 54,470 and Liz Kendall took 13,601."

As to the accusations about Corbyn supporters being members of some sort of menacing cult, I attended a local party meeting on Thursday evening which had been organised in order that a vote might be taken as to which candidate represented the majority choice for the local Labour Party membership. Over 300 people attended and they appeared to be a cross-section of society, i.e. of all ages, backgrounds and ethnicities.

Before the vote was taken, five volunteer speakers' names were drawn to speak in support of their choice of candidate. Each speaker was listened to respectfully, without boos, hissing, or heckling and was clapped by all members of the audience on conclusion of their speech. The vote was then taken and the result was 200+ to Corbyn and 100+ to Smith.

I disagree trisher, Kinnock brought the party back from the wilderness years , I see thst a great success if one accepts how low the party had sunk due to far left policies in 1983 . Brown was targeted by .murdoch as was Kinnock . I consider them good leaders who put the party first

Corbyn a good Leader? He is hopeless , needs momentum to arrange his rallies, needs McDonald to face reporters , needs aides to protect him from reporters who dare to approach him

an interesting link POGS. Corbyn will have the militants back in the party, one only has to listen to Scargill, Hatton, Taffe, Gallloway and co.

Brown and Kinnock could both be considered unsuccessful leaders Annie so maybe putting oneself first is the mark of a successful leader which if Corbyn is such must be in his favour?!

This is an interesting read and Peter Taffe gave an interesting interview on Daily Politics ' a few months' back which was quite enlightening , it may still be available to view.
.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/aug/10/leader-expelled-leftwing-group-militant-peter-taaffe-readmission-labour-corbyn

Jen, I can't do,links,N surprised you have missed the many times I havexsaidcthid, expect you ignore a lot of my posts.

I can give youbthecdetsilecyet again

After the disasterous defeat in the 1983 election, Kinnock became leader ,he and the majority knew the Militants had to be ousted. Look on u tube, type in Kinnocks speech 1885, you will see Hatton, Heffer and Scargill furious , only on for a few minutes.

michmsrl Crick showed a leaflet which was a campaign leaflet , Corbyns name and address printed on it. The campaigncaws to support getting the Militants bsck into the party.

If anyone knows of a link to this I would be most grateful. As it's proof to support what I have said is true , Jen wants proof , my word for some reason is not now accepted by her

Durhamjen

You ask if I 'getting at you'.

I would be a liar if I did not think of you as being one of the posters I asked the question of in my post 22.03 as you have been a prolific, fervent poster who has declared no longer voted for the Labour Party and has equally posted link after link toward other parties other than Labour during election periods.

'Getting at you' implies a desire for malice on my part but I asked a perfectly fair question, I was not rude and explained my thought process behind the question and I termed in a general manner not to you individually so either answer the question or not entirely up to you.

I don't think POGS mentioned 'links' at all, durhamjen.

I certainly recall you saying you'd voted for the Green Party at one stage.

Note, POGS, UKIP is not in that list. I would be surprised if I had given any links to or agreed with any of their manifestos.

You getting at me, POGS?
I can't recall anyone else giving links to the NHA.
Does giving links to a party website mean you are a member?
In which case I must be a member of the Tory party, LIBDEMS, Labour, communists,Green Party, NHA, old uncle Tom Cobley and all!
I think I would have been found out.

Do you have a link to Corbyn plotting against Kinnock, Annie?

Nightowl - I can understand your frustration at not being allowed to vote in this current leadership campaign. I have friends who joined after the 12th so are in the same boat. They, though, were glad of the opportunity to have a chance to vote with the additional payment or through affiliated unions etc. The NEC has to set a cut off date, otherwise we would be allowing people who joined five minutes from the closure to vote. I think this is an area that now has to be set in tablets of stone. Perhaps something along the lines that as soon as a leadership challenge is launched the cut off date begins at midnight on that date. This would be clearly set out in the membership blurb so that no-one was in any doubt that they might lose out on a vote. My biggest concern is not, when is the cut off date, but who is actually doing the voting. I have absolutely no problem with genuine Labour supporters joining and having the right to vote even if they do not vote my way but I do have a major concern of people of all political persuasions joining up for £3 just to vote. A system like that opens the flood gates to abuse. By their own admission a fair number did this last time. For the election of the leader of your party the end, for me, does not justify the means. It needs to be seen to be fully open and fully democratic.
I do believe Foster had the right to challenge the ambiguous statement re the % factor. I also believe the five had a right to challenge their barring from the vote. We all know how the courts decided in each of those. The law does not always produce the result we want.

No Trisher, Broen didn't put himself first, in fact he sacrificed a lot for the good of the party. And I know this to be true , couldn't care less who doesn't believe it , same goes for Kinnock , he fought so hard for the party. One can only hope if Corbyn takes us through an election there will be someone with the same guts as Kinnock to get the party together again - even thoigh Corbyn plotted against him and the party

So many people have joined Labour either for the first time or re-jojned the Labour Party since Corbyn became Leader. Fact, stating the bleeding obvious actually. We see it clearly on a few Gransnet posts by those who either say they 'gave up' on Labour, told posters on Gransnet in the past to vote for other political parties rather than Labour etc. yet now they hold a firm conviction in opposition to previous thought in posts we have all read , Labour under Corbyn is the party to vote for.

If Corbyn was no longer the Leader would those posters , who have said they were either never Labour members or lapsed members revert back to backing other parties such as the Greens, National Health Party etc. which they have strongly advocated on Gransnet before??

Thank you nightowl. Yes I understand the point you are making and for a person who genuinely wants to support the party it must seem unfair but sorry I don't ,usually I would but I do not believe the majority who have joined recently have the interests of the party at heart , some of them have the interests of Corbyn and some want to damage the party even more , not forgetting I know for a fact it was said in a bar in a university - it's only three quid, that's a cheap laugh , I wonder how many more bars the very same was said.

If Blair hadn't taken the centre ground we would have lost again, this is the reason I feel sorry for many MP's who I know were towards the left went with the centre ground because they could at least put some labour policies through, if we had lost not one would have gone through , yet these PM's are scorned and called Blairites , I think the
Blair government did a lot of good and if it hadn't been for the Blair government there would have been no mimimum wage, no tax credits and many more good Labour Party policies , so I cannot dismiss the good done , others can

So that cuts out Tony Blair, Margaret Thatcher, Ronald Regan, Bill Clinton-oh I can't be a***d to list them all. Most leaders put themselves first!

Self indulgent and not a leader either.
A leader doesn't put themselves first.

That's a good question Annie, and as a matter of fact I was considering joining for a while around the last election, because as I have said before I supported Ed Miliband as leader even though I thought he made mistakes. I had reached a stage where I wanted to become more actively involved in the party which I have always felt best reflected my beliefs, in all its shades of left-ness (the Blair era aside). So yes I think I would have joined anyway, though the timing was influenced by the election of Jeremy Corbin as leader. But irrespective of all that, my point is still that the NEC have acted in an inconsistent and manipulative manner which has not done the party any favours. I would actually have preferred them not to offer me the chance to buy a vote for £25, as I think that is not in the spirit of democracy.

Is that your definition of a leader, Leticia, someone who is not self indulgent?
How do you figure out Tony Blair, then?

I find him far too self indulgent- definitely not a leader.