Beginning to distrust Jeremy Corbyn

Who are you, for that matter, blueskies? You seem to be a very new poster...

Wonder away Trisher, I admit I wonder how you can find a leader you see no fault at all in , I have never managed to do that in fifty years ,

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@dj

I don't know how many messages I receive in my inbox or on Facebook about the NHS. It must be a dozen or so every week. The trouble is that few people actually care. As long as they're treated OK when they need care and have any opportunity to moan when things go wrong, they won't do anything.

There's very little they can do, unless they take direct action involving the CCG at local level. You've seen as well as I did how Hunt dismissed the junior doctors' dispute and how the media dealt with it. There have been well-attended rallies and marches, which rarely get media attention. People can be as angry as they like, but nothing will get done, unless people go for the jugular (metaphorically).

How many people are aware of the implications of transferring some social care functions from the NHS to local authorities and hence to private providers? How many people know or care that my area has virtually no mental health services?

My local politicians (apart from the MP) are independents, but they seem more concerned about preventing houses being built than anything else. There is no local Labour Party.

I have thought of setting up some kind of action group, but I've failed to find anybody who would help me. The apathy is palpable. The CCG doesn't advertise its meetings, so decisions are rubber-stamped.

Anniebach you are going over and over the same arguments, we disagree. Only time will prove who is right.
But don't tell lies. Corbyn has toured the country with open air meetings. Are all the people there members of Momentum?
www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/watch-thousands-turn-out-support-11692191
I'm beginning to wonder what your motives really are.

There is nothing wrong with forum members holding Socialist principles dear, or for that matter Conservative or Lib Dem members holding their principles dear either.
However Socialists on here view Corbyn, ( and he seems like Marmite) They surely must know that a Socialist government will not be voted into power because the vast majority of the electorate does not want it.Neither does the vast majority want the Lib Dems either, so it's a Labour or Conservative win come election time, and to have a chance Labour has to be centre at least and not very left leaning.Those who argue otherwise are kidding themselves.

That was to Obione about the, vote.

Exactly, aged 18 is young enough....as to 16!!

politics.us3.list-manage.com/track/click?u=f5ab5efdb629954eb1b8df87b&id=b62431e54b&e=f5e4f66f33

Not just the NHS, Lazigirl. Who wanted an Australian points system for immigrants?
Leave, wasn't it?

I have been putting stuff about the NHS on the Cameron's legacy thread, but people would rather just slag off Corbyn than get together and fight for what really matters.

trisher, it's not about Shami, a man who wants to be PM needs to be accompanied when questioned by a select committee is not a strong leader

He avoids off the cuff questions from reporters, only responds in recorded interviews , he doesn't face hecklers , chooses to speak to momentum events only, this is why I see him as weak, McDonald answers the off the cuff questions for him

In the eighties there was no UKIP, no Greens , it was a three way battle , yes I compare both because both times the leader was from the far left

I would love to have a strong socialist government but accept any labour government win now needs to be centre not far left . Milliband leaned to the left and lost last year

There are not fifteen million voters waiting to vote for a far left party. I will settle for a centre party in power than a far left opposition,

@Lazigirl

How well was the meeting advertised?

I've just become involved in a local plan group and it's worrying that so many people don't seem to have a clue how the NHS is organised or how the budget is allocated. To be honest, I'm not sure anybody does, because it's so complicated, but the basic principles aren't hard to grasp.

There's a local Facebook group about our health facilities. All people do is moan, but when the local community hospital was more or less shut down (possibly in preparation for a sale), nobody did anything. Some people suggested writing to our MP, but he's not going to do anything. Nobody seems to know who makes the decisions and how they can be influenced.

I have answered the question about elections before I don't know and neither do you. Your ideas are based on what happened in the 80s I'm looking at the situation in the 21st century. As for the notes how do I know what was in them. They might have been planning lunch/coffee/next meeting. I believe Shami to be a person of great honour and integrity because of the work she has done, so I would hope she wouldn't do anything to compromise herself- but I could be wrong.

.trusher, you avoid direct questions, do you think a strong leader needs to have notes passed to him when asked questions by a select committee and do you believe Corbyn can win a general election?

As for anyone connected with Blairs government being a no no , hasn't affected Andy Butnham has it?

Today our CCG is meeting to announce severe cuts to many of our local health services and I cannot understand why the public are not out on the streets rioting in protest. I then come to this thread and see that those who could be actively working to stop iniquitous public services decimation busy exchanging personal remarks about JC. Disappointingly this mirrors the media narrative which we are being fed. I fail to see how descriptions of "scruffy oik, lazy, badly dressed, wimp or hobo", to name a few, contribute to an intelligent debate about the way forward for the Labour Party in a very different political landscape to which we have known in the past.

@Anya

Yes.

@anniebach

I don't think it's unreasonable for Corbyn to have notes passed to him. Chakrabati conducted the enquiry and presumably knew what she'd found out and reported better than Corbyn did. I didn't watch the whole committee meeting, so don't know what the questions were. However, if you've ever been in court and seen a barrister in action, you'll see notes being passed all the time. The solicitors and assistants often know more about the details than the barrister does.

Anniebach do you think a party which voted for and was led by a man who took the country into an illegal war can ever hope to resurrect itself? I think they can but only with someone who has some sort of credibility and you haven't come up with anyone else. So carp on all you like about what Corbyn has or hasn't done. Give me an alternative and I will look at both and choose the best, until then Corbyn is my choice.

DD it is farcical I agree. I'm just going to sit it out as there are worse things going on in the world, such as the horrible attack on that hospital in Pakistan which was hardly given any coverage and Russian aggression

Puts things in perspective don't you agree?

Trisher, do you think a party leader when questioned by a select committee needs anyone to accompany him and to write and pass notes to him when he is asked questions, the questions were all related to the party he is leader of

Seconded trisher!

There is no credible alternative at present. Anyone seen as associated with Blair will never be accepted by the electorate, never mind the membership - memories of the Iraq debacle will not go away, no matter how effective he may have been as a leader.

Thank you for the reply, Anya.

Maybe I should become re-engaged in all this in-fighting. The whole thing just seems farcical. It's like a whole football team wondering what to do while there's an open goal and the goalie has gone off for a wee.

I only know two staunch Corbyn fans and they're both over 65. My own children, both of whom would be considered 'young voters', are strongly anti-Conservative, but think Corbyn's a wally.

Once again a whole load of rhetoric and name calling- no actual response or suggestions. I give up. There are none so deaf as those who will not hear. I have been accused of being a member of Momentum, condemned as a leftie, and people like me are held responsible for breaking up the Labour party, but we are all willing to listen and at present I hear nothing but condemnation of someone who may not be the perfect candidate but is the only person I can see who has spoken up for real Labour policies. Find your alternative, post their views and I will listen but until then I will stick with Corbyn
I don't remember posting or commenting on what was said by I suppose you mean McDonnell, but feel free to make things up if you choose.

I wish the conference could be cancelled ,it will be torture to watch

DD yes

Looks like there will have to be either an embarrassing climbdown over G4S boycott the Labour Conference or a deal with an anti-union security firm instead.

@Anya

You seem to know more about this than I do, because I'm not really a fan of watching bun fights, so am frustrated with it all. Nevertheless, I really do want to see a viable alternative to the Conservatives. What do you mean by "swept up by the cult culture, false heroes and propaganda being fed to the gullible young and disillusioned"? Do you really think that's what's happening?