Beginning to distrust Jeremy Corbyn

Gerald Scarfe is, of course, a well known socialist, drawing cartoons for every newspaper you have previously denigrated, Annie.

JC doesn't set out to be a charismatic leader in the sense that some seem to want him to be. Charisma got us Toe Nibbler. Charisma got us Thatcher. No thanks. JC is more about a movement of the people.Membership of the Labour party has increased hugely since he became leader. He is no hypocrite; he is genuine, not a militant - seeking fairness and policies which try to protect people from exploitation. The unions came into being to protect working people and if JC talks of restoring some of the former power that Thatcher et al eroded, then IMO he's definitely got my vote.
He's no anarchist.That's a ludicrous thing to say! The PLP rebels are the treacherous ones: he was voted leader fairly and with a large majority and they've undermined him from day one. How could he get anywhere without support of the PLP who seem determined to ignore the wishes of the labour members? They've behaved appallingly. I'd happily wave them goodbye.

There. As this seems to be a ranting thread, I've had my twopence worth. Rant over, for the time being. I'm off to knit a red flag for my granddaughter.

Oh, one more thing: I find it offensive in the extreme to read that Momentum members are compared to Nazis. My father is a refugee from the Nazi regime; he has campaigned tirelessly all his life in the UK for what he believes in. Corbyn is no militant but he is a socialist and isn't afraid of saying so. He is as far from Nazism as chalk is to cheese. He's the only Labour leader we've had with integrity and vision but you wouldn't know that from the way he's treated in the press!

If the boundaries are the same as were mooted at the last change, North West Durham will no longer exist. There will be three incumbent MPs fighting for the nomination of one seat, and whoever wins, good luck to him/her. Half of the constituency will not be able to be visited for half of the year. It will even include Haltwhistle, which by no stretch of the imagination is anywhere near Barnard Castle.

"If this parliament runs to full term, then the new boundaries will be the basis on which elections take place. In that case, there would be a full selection process in every constituency, but the sitting MP for any part or any substantial part of the new boundary would have an opportunity to put their name forward.”

I put this on before, POGS, from your businessinsider link.
It was from Corbyn's speech when he said he was going to fight the election.

What the quote says is labour party rules. Whether it is Corbyn or Smith leading the party, they will have to abide by the same rules.
Unite say the same. It is not Corbyn saying so.
Corbyn at least respects the membership and the rules.
Shame others do not.

He is Beam, think of his supporters, Derek Hatton, George Galloway, Red Ken , McDonald, all trots , all rats out to take revenge for the eighties and take the party back to the eighties

Vote Owen to save the party from Militants

Just listened to JC droning on at a rally yesterday. He is clearly an anarchist, whining about getting shot of capitalists et al. Most worrying is his attack on the parliamentary process! Where would this little twerp be without the democratic umbrella of our Parliament and the Labour party.
He is a treacherous little rat.

Beam so Scarfe also acknowledges Jez has brought trots into the party .

I have been reading posts in support of Khan by the same posters here who claim to care about the Labour Party!

Not one has condemned momentum groupies for booing Khan and calling him a red Tory. It was said he wouldn't get the votes if he stood again for mayor.

Khan was praised for campaigning with Cameron during the Brexit campaign, yet when I criticised Jez for not sharing a platform with anyone during the campaign it was explained - it was because of the harm Cameron had done

Not Labour Party supporters in my opinion

A brilliant Gerald Scarfe cartoon of JC shitting over Labour;

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/gerald-scarfe-78hvrfpfd?shareToken=22b698169a61fa4a31f491788b4f20b4

Eloethan

"POGS I don't think anybody said Conservatives or supporters of other parties should not comment on what is happening in the Labour Party - that would be pretty silly because anyone, of course, can post on Gransnet. I think it is reasonable to say, though, that supporters of other parties are unlikely to have the interests of the Labour Party at heart when they make comments, and are quite happy to join in anything that will weaken the party."

If that principle were to be widened beyond this thread and the party you support then it begs the question why does the Politics Forum have thread after thread started by left wing supporters who are talking about right wing/other parties politics/governance etc.

The cake cannot be had and eaten just because the odd reverse happens and the thread is unusually about the Labour Party and indeed Corbyn which seems to be a trigger for protectionism against speaking/debating the Labour Party.

Should we all view the constant putting forward of threads about the Conservatives and the at times vitriol that is said as those from other parties not having the interest of the Conservative Party at heart and quite happy to join in anything that weakens the Party?

Nobody requires permission to post as you and I will both agree so it would be better if posters accepted that position and not try to belittle or defend by saying/giving the impression it is not in order to post. If it were the norm then thread after thread would be seeing posters telling others they are only doing so to damage a party they oppose and Lord knows that would be a daily occurrence on practically every political thread.

The leader of Scotlands Labour Party is supporting Owen Smith

So Labour lost the last two elections, well for the newbie alleged labour supporters here, labour lost four in a row when the militant rats swarmed the party , the ones Jez campaigned to bring back into the party , taken him a long time but he has succeeded , this is why political experts are saying the Labour Party will be out of power this time for a generation.

Thank you Bennan, yes the Militants are back

Some new policies from Jez, when he us PM he will give unions more power . Explains much doesn't it.

Eleothan, no I am not mixing up your Momentum with a religious group , Members of your momentum group greeted Jez with the Wind song ,

Thanks for the links POGS to save me having to copy and paste.
I can hardly believe that dj did not know all that stuff before.

dj - can I ask. I am a bit mistified as to why you dont want to be called and thought of as a member of Momentum.

No Eloethan, it is not reasonable to say, or even think that supporters of other parties are quite happy to join in anything that will weaken the Labour Party.
There are plenty of people like me who are floating voters, and plenty of people on this thread[I think] have said that a very weak Labour Party is not a good thing for democracy.

I have just caught up with this thread and anniebach I think it's quite disgraceful that you posted a clip from Cabaret where a swastika-wearing young man (Hitler Youth?) is singing "Tomorrow belongs to me" and you suggest that it should be the theme song of Momentum. It seems that, according to you, Corbyn supporters are both "Trots" and Nazis. By the way, I can find no reference to Momentum singing "The wind beneath my wings". Have you, again, mistaken Momentum, the political group, for Momentum, the religious group (you will recall you previously mis-attributed the words "We live for him" to Momentum rather than the religious group of the same name)? A search on the internet reveals that several religious organisations have used this song.

Having incorrectly represented yourself as the victim of nastiness - when in fact a review of the thread will conclusively demonstrate that it is you who has resorted to name-calling, sarcasm and rudeness - you have continued in the same vein and once again addressed durhamjen in a very sarcastic and dismissive way.

There have been several right wing groups opposing Corbyn, including Progress and Saving Labour - whose funder didn't want to identify himself but who, following extensive investigations, turned out to own a health company. Now, as durhamjen's link to a Paul Mason article illustrates, these organisations have gone very quiet because there is yet another campaign called "Labour Tomorrow", the purpose of which is, again, to get rid of Corbyn. According to Mason, it is a private company with a reported £250,000 "war chest" to fight Corbyn if he wins. The website says that this money "will be distributed only to "moderate centre left organisations", though the term "moderate centre left" is not defined. Again, as with Saving Labour, there is no information as to where the money has come from.

POGS I don't think anybody said Conservatives or supporters of other parties should not comment on what is happening in the Labour Party - that would be pretty silly because anyone, of course, can post on Gransnet. I think it is reasonable to say, though, that supporters of other parties are unlikely to have the interests of the Labour Party at heart when they make comments, and are quite happy to join in anything that will weaken the party.

Durhamjen you ask if I blelieve what Corbyn said re deselection, yes I do.

Members of Britain’s biggest trade union have voted strongly in support of mandatory re-selection for Labour MPs as well as reaffirming their backing for Jeremy Corbyn.

" However, we condemn the attempts of right-wing Labour MPs, in concert with hostile sections of the media, to destabilise and remove Jeremy from his democratically-elected position despite his overwhelming mandate from party members, affiliated and registered supporters. We believe these attacks are designed to return Labour to a pro-austerity position.

“MPs have not got ‘jobs for life’. They represent their constituency but ultimately they are selected by and accountable to their Constituency Labour Party. To ensure democratic accountability and the rights of party members to select candidates that reflect their views, conference supports the need for mandatory reselection of Labour MPs in each Parliament as essential."

labourlist.org/2016/07/unite-members-issue-call-to-deselect-mps-trying-to-bring-down-corbyn/

It's that term again 'not got jobs for life'.
-__----

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/jeremy-corbyn-says-he-will-not-interfere-in-attempts-to-deselect-labour-mp-peter-kyle_uk_57a1ed3de4b0459aae5eee71

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At the press conference in central London which Business Insider attended, Corbyn effectively confirmed that every Labour MP could face deselection once the national constituency boundaries are redrawn in 2018.

Asked whether Labour MPs would face a reselection process in 2018, Corbyn said:

"If this parliament runs to full term, then the new boundaries will be the basis on which elections take place. In that case, there would be a full selection process in every constituency, but the sitting MP for any part or any substantial part of the new boundary would have an opportunity to put their name forward.”

This is huge. At least 180,000 people applied to join Labour in the 48-hour signing up window. The majority of these prospective new members are supporters of Corbyn, according to the Huffington Post's Paul Waugh. Now, the party has over half a million members, the Labour leader told the press conference.

This all means, in theory, that the party membership could de-select moderate Labour MPs and replace them with candidates who support the left-wing leader. The pro-Corbyn faction of the party — propped up by the Momentum grassroots organisation— could take near-full control.

uk.businessinsider.com/jeremy-corbyn-labour-party-mp-reselection-momentum-leadership-contest-2016-7

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I could go on but I think it is quite evident that was once thought of as a possibility of deselection now looks likely for some MP's Durhamjen.

I really feel that Jeremy Corbyn is virtually invisible in his role as a party leader. So invisible that I have not a clue what he thinks of anything.
Labour need someone more dynamic and this is not the time to encourage the more militant or this party will sink without trace.
Heaven preserve us from a return of the Trotskyists. They caused so much trouble in the 1970s/80s. They were certainly not acting very democratically where I worked.
I fear we are a long way from a return of a strong more middle ground socialist party.

Jen, you still support Corbyn even now you know he led a campaign to bring .militants - who put the party into the wilderness years - who had been expelled back into the party, no one who knows the harm they have done to the party can say they care for the party knowing this. carry on with condemning decent labour MP's and supporting a hypocrite, your choice

But it's okay for me to be attacked, called a member of Momentum and accused of wanting to destroy the labour party by bringing in trots and militants, is it, Bennan?

Momentum groupies have booed Khan, he is now a red Tory - work that one out - and is secretly working with Jews - seems Shami didn't carry out a thorough enquiry , still she has a seat in the lords

Jen, he was elected by SOME people like me, do not class me with the momentum lot and do not use me in a sad attempt to support a man without principles and a traitor to the Labour Party. You are suppose to be a labour supporter but fully support the destruction of the Labour Party and bringing in trots and Militants to build a new party under the name of a decent, caring party. You are so mistaken.

I think it is very unfair of the posters to attack AB with regard to her change of heart re JC. I am not and never will be a Labour voter. I have my own opinions regarding the leader of the Labour Party but will keep them to myself. I will say, however that he is not God and if members of his party have taken against him they have every right to do so and to state so without fear or favour. This is the basis of our political system and should be respected and allowed. We do not always get what we want in life and have to accept the choices of the majority. I'm sorry, AB, that you are so hurt and upset by the machinations of the current political system. We can only hope that good sense will prevail in the future and I do have to agree that Momentum has echoes of the Militant Tendency of dread repute.

You all seem to have forgotten that Labour lost the last two elections. Was that Corbyn's fault, too?
If I were him, I would just smile sweetly and give in, apologising to all the members who wanted me to continue, and go and tend my allotment.
Then I would leave Labour to its own internecine arguments, because they are not going to get behind Owen Smith. Somebody on the right wing will come forward to challenge him, and labour will not be elected because it will have lost its heart again.

Annie, I am not a member of Momentum and never have been.

POGS, why do you not believe what Corbyn said about reselection and boundary changes?
Is it because you do not want to believe it? The media story suits you better?

The labour split is not Corbyn's fault. He was elected last year by people like Annie and other members. He was elected because enough labour MPs put his name forward because they wanted a proper debate.
They got it!
Now they have changed their minds. Corbyn hasn't.
They are the hypocrites.

"Deselecting MPs who opposed changes in the party risked damaging Labour’s popularity with the wider voting public, Beckett said. Even if a “couple of hundred” suitable candidates could be found, she said, “do they imagine the electorate are going to be happy with that and we will still have the same level of electoral success, or do they not care one way or the other what happens to the party in parliament?”

www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/aug/15/labour-split-risks-handing-tories-unfettered-power-says-margaret-beckett

Answer , No, the fact millions voted the Parliamentary Labour Party MP's into Westminster counts for little and those very same MP's who won their seats are now expendable to Corbyn and his followers.