Childhood obesity strategy "lite"

maizied if you can buy a can of beer in a supermarket at all hours of the day or night, a packet of cigarettes likewise, how do you construe chocolate bars or crisps as " hazardous substances"?

gillybob too right!! Who qualified your average dinner lady as a nutritionist??

Nobody is trying to ban the sales of chocolate! All that is being suggested is to curb the aggressive marketing of junk foods. What's wrong with that daphnebroom and thatbags? I don't think the economic welfare of the country depends on 2 for 1 offers on biscuits and crisps - and I don't think May does either.
Might have something to do with who donates to the Tory party though... That's how lobbying often works.
willa we have (at the moment) safer food in the EU and consequently UK than you do in the states.
And of course not all poor families are overweight Anya and nobody is suggesting that they are. In fact when I was governor of a school in a very poor area it was noticeable that the kids that struggled most academically were also the kids who were on average smallest and latest having puberty (which is related to body weight). However it does not take a genius to compare the rates of obesity in Waitrose to those in Asda.

Haha Daphneboon I think a bar of chocolate after an hours workout is totally anti productive The calories in a bar of chocolate are probably double or more what you lose in the gym but its more about the message its giving than the actual calories... but soft drinks crisps choc bars in dispensers in high schools is just daft in my idea Yes and I think the lunchbox police in primary school is equally daft There has got to be a middle line and thats whats needed
Any legislation needs to be directed at food producers to limit all the hidden sugar I read that our cereal has the highest sugar content in Europe I think its all this hidden stuff thats damaging

Come on. Are some people trying to say that parents don't know what is a healthy and unhealthy option? Of course they do.

This is less to do with income and more to do with being able (for whatever reasons) to cook up a healthy meal from scratch.

The reasons
1) unable to access raw ingredients. Most local greengrocers and butchers have closed down. When did you last see a greengrocers or butchers on these sink estate? You don't. You'll only see typically the off-licence, mini stores and takeaways. These days it's on,y at the supermarkets that some mothers can get a decent selection of fresh veg, fruit and protein. But you can buy pizzas, and other junk, cheaply enough at the small local shop.
2) transport
If you are unable, or unwilling, to get to a big supermarket what are you expected to do? Getting the bus limits the amount you can carry, cuts into your day especially if you have children to get to school, pick up or ore-school children to juggle.

I used to sit on the North West Obesity Forum as LEA/school representative. These above were two of the major issues we highlighted. And that was before considering how to teach people to actually cook.

JessM's point about the underweight children in primary school struggling academically and reaching puberty later could well be linked to their emotional needs being neglected, along with poor/insufficient food.

Most of us will have had cereal/toast for breakfast, with full cream milk, jam and butter. Meat, poatoes and two veg followed by sponge cake and custard at school dinner, then another cooked meal at tea/supper time. In our family, if we asked for something between meals we were told to get a piece of fruit. A bag of crisps was a real treat and we had sweets on Saturday when grannie brought them. We ate a lot but we also had so much more freedom than most children do today. We ran about, rode bikes and generally played out a lot.

JessM's point about the difference in the weights of customers and their children in for example Waitrose and Asda is sadly correct. I've just seen on line, a report from a tv programme yesterday where a 22 stone mother complained that her obese 11 year old needed to go to fat camp. The mother complained there is no help for parents whose children are over weight, then went on to list her GP, a dietician, camhs, involvement with her daughter and how unhelpful that had all been. She said the government need to step in to help mothers like her.

In our days we had a greengrocer and a butchers within walking distance and the fish van used to come around on a Friday.

Which sort of help was she after from the government Iam64?

A government-paid fat camp?

I think the problems with obesity in general is a combination of several factors. Finance, mothers having to work, therefore less time and energy to prepare and cook nutritious meals, lack of 'mealtimes,' much easier to give a toddler a sausage roll and a packet of crisps than cook a proper meal, easy access to readymade meals, and the list goes on. Combine this with lack of exercise, and you have a problem! I'm sure most of us remember walking or cycling to most places, running for the bus!!! playing outside even in bad weather (shooed out by our mother's who were busy, probably cooking from scratch!!) Life has changed out of all recognition as to how it was even 30 years ago, never mind 60!! Basically, cook proper meals, cut junk down to a minimum and go for a good walk or bike ride!!! Surely most people can work that out for themselves without the state interfering?

Some excellent points raised regarding the lack of local shops. Now I'm not making excuses here but I know how much it costs to get a bus to our nearest big supermarket and it's not cheap . For two adults snd two or three children it would cost in the region of £10 return . Which is a hell of a lot of money if you are on a tight budget. I remember when I was a child in the 60's and 70's. We didn't have a car and my sister, dad and I would meet my mum from work once or twice a month and we would all do the big shop. ( My dad was only there to carry the bags mind you ) .
There were usually 3-4 bags but never meat or vegetables as we bought them in the local shops that were in walking distance from home (on a large council estate) . These days the same estate has a paper shop, an off licence, come general dealer ( selling mainly booze) a Bet Fred and a fish and chip/kebab shop. No wonder the poorer in society can't/ don't eat well.

Aren't we getting very judgemental about this?

Yes, there are those parents who CBA'd to seek out fresh ingredients and cook it. But what about those who haven't any local shops selling a decent selection of fruit, veg and protein. And those who haven't a car to get to a supermarket?

How can they manage to put a healthy meal in front of the children, day after day after day?

I don't think anyone out there is getting this point at all!

Imagine you're a mother with pre-school children. The local shop on'y sells junk food and the odd wizened carrot and apple. And pre-packed mince at an extortionate price. To get to somewhere that sells fresh veg, fruit, meat, etc. you have to pack them all into the buggy, whatever the weather, struggle into a bus .....and imagine the journey home.

Personally I'd probably give up too and grab a packet of sausage rolls from the local shop.

Crossed posts Gilly at least someone gets this point

I think it is important that schools serve good, nutritious food . A school meal is quite expensive these days ( for those who do pay) but the food is not very good, especially if you are unfortunate enough to be one if the last groups of children to eat . My DGD's have told me many times that there is virtually nothing left for them when they eventually get into the dinner hall and have often been given measly filled sandwiches in place of their meal . I have complained many times and said that surely the school know how many they have to feed everyday ? No wonder the children prefer packed lunches from home .

I agree that it is very hard indeed if you don't have access to fresh ingredients, but I think that there are other factors involved. In our local town here in France we have several greengrocers, butchers, bakers, a big market once a week and supermarkets that have a far more limited range of "junk" food than the UK. Far fewer obese children too, but the ones that you do see are the ones whose parents are buying sugary drinks, lots of biscuits and cheaper processed food.
My impression is that most people cook and know how to cook cheaply from scratch, so something else is going on here.
I am not being judgemental, but I think the power of advertising impacts more on some people than others.

The big supermarkets could do a lot to help in this regard.

We didn't get a car till after DS was born, when I'd three children under 4. But I could easily get to a massive Asda store 3 miles away with them on a free double decker bus that ran several times a week and stopped just up the road, then at various places on the way. A couple of my neighbours used it too and we'd help each other home with the bags. If we were lucky the driver would let us out at the end of the street

I've just checked out the local supermarket buses round here. They just run to the nearest bus station, and fares are prohibitive.

Surely reinstating the free transport would bring in extra custom as well?

Which all comes back to the OP and the government helping to sort it out.

It is a complicated issue mamie but while it's likely that many French do know how to cook from scratch, I don't think it's the same over here.

We managed to fund two after-school clubs for parents (on poor estates) and children to learn how to cook from scratch. It was an eye-opener. We provided each family with a basic cookery book, and still had to explain certain terms to them, show them how to prepare veg, explained how to steam food ("I'd always wondered how to do that" said one mum) how to, for example, eek out the mince in a shepherds pie with onions and carrots, and so on. At the end we also funded a slow cooker for each family. A follow up a year later showed that not only were the majority (85%) still sticking to healthy eating plans most of the time, but 65% had branched out into other recipes they heard on TV or elsewhere and were positively creative and adventurous.

What inspired me most though was how much pride they took in their new-found skills.

@Anya

I'm never quite sure why sausage rolls feature so prominently in discussions about obesity. One of the simplest and cheapest meals which many parents cook is pasta with some kind of sauce. Aldi sell very cheap sauces, but if you look at the labelling, they are full of sugar - it's the same with tins of tomatoes. A sausage roll probably has fewer calories than a big plate of pasta and sauce. Cooked from scratch isn't necessarily healthier.

Obi what I'd like to see is the government and big businesses like Tesco, organising a grocery van to visit these places a couple of times a week, selling fresh food, and perhaps even discount veg and fruit that have been rejected as not quite perfect by the 'straight cucumber' decree.

Cooking from scratch isn't neccessarily healthier

Since when has shop-bought pasta sauce been 'cooking from scratch' DD

I think that DD's post sort of proves my point .Mamie

[roast chicken]

Wish I could continue this discussion as at last it's going somewhere but things to do ...

That's sounds great, Anya. I've been in the situation where I was having to feed two children and me on a very strict budget (less than £5 for all of us for a day). One thing which really used to get to me was people like Jamie Oliver saying that a shoulder of lamb is cheaper than a leg. I would also recommend comparing the price of frozen and fresh veg. Frozen is just as nutritious and there's usually less wastage. Fresh fruit is usually prohibitively expensive if you're on a strict budget.

I cringe now when I think of some of the things I gave my children, because I thought they were healthy: fresh fruit juice, dried fruit, low fat yoghurt, cereal bars, etc.

No need to be snotty, Anya.

I wasn't linking the two, just saying that pasta and sauce is a staple in many low income families.

A toddler in a buggy eating a sausage roll is likely having this as a snack, in addition to normal meals. A Greggs SR has 349 calories - that's a lot of extra calories for a child, particularly as many seem so inactive.