Traingate

It is a watered down version of integrity. However I believe we have to support Labour somehow, because as Anniebach says the SNP could be the opposition and that doesn't bear thinking about.

Corbyn doesn't have integrity POGS

If the forecast thst Labour may lose over hundred seats at the next election the oposition party could be the SNP . Momentum are working towards one million members so that's one million votes - perhaps. How many millions will not vote labour next time because they do not want old Labour of the days of the depression, they don't want unions running the country again because they remember the winter of discontent . Corbynites can get excited by large rallies , increase in membership and forget without the votes of middle England there will not be a Labour government

I don't follow the argument Jeremy Corbyn has more 'integrity' than Owen Smith.

Well I have been following this whole mess and now I believe it was a stunt. Sitting beside his wife is a poor excuse and it has done him no favours.

I still believe he has more integrity than Owen Smith, and if I have to pick between two plonkers, then I will still choose him.

There is something very depressing about it all. The misguided PR, the schoolchildren tactics etc, but there has to be an opposition, so I am sticking with Corbyn, as Owen Smith is just more of the same.

I disagree with the statement - Labour Party infighting, no, it is the Labour Party fighting to survive the dangers of militancy

Matt Chorley (Times cartoonist and editor of Red Box):

Revelation of the day goes to The Guardian, which says that at the height of Traingate on Tuesday, Corbyn was "impossible to reach for some time because he was making jam".

So there's another thing I'm willing to presume that Corbyn can do right. No-one and nothing interrupts one's jam-making process.

Well... actually... going into labour does, I have to admit. Minibags was clearly Miss Very Important from the word go

Just as a final comment. Presumably JC had a protection officer(s) with him? Was he she also sitting on the floor? Were the rest of his entourage including his wife in this ram?jam packed train also on the floor? or was it just the dear leader who was subjected to this discomfort?! I would have thought that a member of his staff, if they had a seat, which it would appear they did, would have given up this seat, and not left an elderly gentleman sitting on the floor, but rather would have sat on the floor themselves! Luckily they were financially able to upgrade a family to first class thus securing seating for their party. Not many of us would want or maybe be able to do that, and would have struggled for the whole journey, not just 10 or 15 minutes of it!!!

Good summing up, ab.

Well, gracesgran, I'm one of those who think Corbyn can do right. I think he was really quite allright as a back bench MP.

Some good has come from traingate. Corbyn has no problem with telling pokies , his tantrum yesterday morning because he was asked a question he didn't like shows why momentum have to protect him from the press. His constant - I want a kinder, honest politics, is another lie .

The Tories will have a great time with all this when they are all back in the house, they will needle him and he will finally lose control .

There will be no Labour government for years, perhaps never .

The youngsters in momentum will grow up, get jobs, a mortgage and mow their lawns on Sundays.

Wonder just how much of a pawn Corbyn is, I now think perhaps he is a pathetic figure , lapping up the adoration of young women , protected from the press , momentum rallies boosting his ego .

The Tories will not have to fight to win the next election Corbyn will win it for them

Gracesgran, my irritation with the cult of Mr Corbyn got the better of me. Of course, there are those who believe he can do no right. I saw him speak at four of the hustings during the last leadership campaign. He was well supported by the audience, I joined in the applause for his contribution to the debate. I didn't vote for him because I didn't see him as a potential leader. All those years as a back bench MP, opposing rather than finding a way forward. Ordinary family or work life demands we compromise, find consensus in order to ensure the best for the many. I don't want to sound like I'm preaching, I'm as flawed as the next person but I felt he wasn't the right person to run the country. When he was elected with such a large majority, he had my support for about 9 months, by which time it was my belief he'd never win an election. It's also my belief the country would benefit from an effective Labour government, or currently, an effective opposition. No one could claim that's what we have currently. There is no need to repeat all the arguments about who is responsible for that and Gracegran is right, the infighting tells us all we need to know about the Labour party.

Whatever the ins and outs of this story, why do people have to stand or sit on the floor when they've paid a lot of money out for tickets?

Gracesgrsn, was it not you who said you had supported the Gang of Four who formed the SDP?

Iam there may be a few for whom 'JC ... can do no wrong' but this thread shows a group equally besotted with showing he can do no right. This may seem good sport to those trying to prove ownership of the Labour party but I imagine the sheer idiocy of it all has little appeal for the general population. No one is all good or all bad, has nothing to offer or everything to offer. This infighting tells us all we need to know about the Labour party.

But JC likes to look, down with the crowd. He may genuinely prefer it for all I know, but it is all about image with him. A "young" image, so "sit on the floor with the young uns" look. First class has to be a no-no

www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/apr/16/momentum-labour-party-jeremy-corbyn-politics-john-harris

A while ago, in cattle class on a train, I sat opposite a team of about 4 or 5, an MP and his team. Needless to say, it was a bit difficult for them to operate for about 3 hours, even with a table.
But I guess first class wouldnt be much better on a train? And there would still be the issue of confidentiality.

No excuse for not pre booking seats if there was time.

That's the point Bags, for his supporters, JC is indeed the new Messiah. He can do no wrong, he never mis speaks, resorts to being irritable if put under pressure by those pesky reporters and is the saviour of the new world.

The link says they are amateurs. If the whole train debacle was anything to go by, they certainly are.

I'm still left wondering why it's supposed to be a good thing to do, this not travelling first class and not booking enough seats for your team (or rather, putting up with an incompetent team who don't do such things for you). That leaders of major political parties in a democratic countries should travel first class on party political business is not unreasonable. Plenty of other things that taxpayers' money pays for are unreasonable but this isn't one of them.

#corbynclueless

Trying to imagine Cameron sitting on the floor of a train....

Can't.

You have a point though, ab. Can't imagine a robust defence of Cameron's truthfulness being enacted by the same people (or by anyone, actually) who are trying to defend Corbyn's. Which rather suggests that truthfulness isn't the issue at all.

I actually don't think it is with this story. It's too puerile a stunt for truthfulness to matter. It was done for the drama and the appeal to immature Corbynista mentality. Supposing it to be truthful or untruthful makes no difference to its effectiveness as far as his supporters are concerned. He's the new messiah for them. (That's a reference I pinched from Aaronovitch's article).

Some of you will enjoy this article by David Aaronovitch in which he says Corbynites are more like schoolkids than Trots.

Here are the last two paragraphs for people who can't be arsed to read the whole link.

"The left’s vice has always been self-righteousness, just as the right’s is smugness. But when you add the sense of entitlement that is characteristic of so many of the younger middle-class people in Britain, you can end up with an impatience with compromise coupled to a belief that anything that is strongly felt must somehow be enacted. Or, as Jez also told them: “There’s a poet in all of us, there’s a musician in all of us, there’s an author in all of us.”

"It’s disappointing, but growing up in life and in politics means discovering that there really isn’t."

Timeline has been mentioned on this thread so let's talk about timeline.

1. This all kicked off because Corbyn and his team publicly put forward a video of him sitting on the floor of a Virgin Train , in his own words, 'a completely rammed packed' train. The video was put up by the Guardian on August 16th and still available to view on the Guardian site and You Tube. The video was an attempt to give the impression Corbyn was unable to get a seat on the Virgin train and he and his team used the Virgin Train footage to promote their idea of Renationalising the train service. Pure spin.

2. 2 days ago Virgin exposed the video footage as being inaccurate by showing CCTV footage of Corbyn clearly passing empty and reserved seats thus exposing the video as 'spin' by Corbyn and his team.

3. 2 days ago it became common knowledge that Corbyn was indeed accompanied by Momentum either as his team or part of his team. Emma Rees, Momentum National Organiser, gave an interview to Sky News stating she was with him on the train as part of his team and there were categorically ' no seats free'. There was also an interview I viewed on a news station which interviewed Sam Tarry , Labour Councillor/Momentum where he too stated if my memory serves me well there were no unreserved seats free.

Jeremy Corbyn Train Row - Momentum Organiser Says All Seats Were Full

3. 1 day ago Corbyn admits to passing by unreserved/free seats as he was trying to get 2 seats together for him and his wife. I have no reason to doubt the story of a family given an upgrade but a, why didn't he and his wife take advantage of the offer and b, why the hell was anybody offered a free upgrade just because two people wanted to sit together ?

Angry Corbyn Clashes With Sky News Reporter Over Train Row

youtu.be/hQTeiCG9-f8

Aw defending his close friend , how sweet ,

Jen, if Cameron had done what Corbyn did would you hsve been posting link sfter link trying to prove Cameron was speaking the truth?