Traingate

I didn't say Smith was a sacrificial lamb trisher, it may be as you choose to view him no doubt, he is working fir the good if the lsbour party , oh that the leader did the same

Jen, we are not discussing abolishing the lords are we? You do take the topic away

So Smith is the sacrificial lamb and the rest have given up, not exactly inspiring is it?
Mandelson was a member of the Young Communists many moons ago, Isn't Wiki wonderful

I have a problem with Labour people being in the House of Lords, because there shouldn't be a house of lords.
A second elected chamber instead, but you'd have a problem with that, Annie, because the people will elect, and they will not be Mandelsons.

November night, devorgilla. Do you know something we don't?

.trisher, rather silly, no one has a chance of winning against Momentum . This is a different way of electing a leader, first time in over hundred years , untill this coup by the militants candidates spoke for themselves, went on the hustings , now we have a momentum puppet ,

Quite funny trisher - or Yorkshire caviar as I am told it is called up North.

It will be successive Tory governments that do for the NHS and any other gains by the working class in the last hundred years. Owen Smith won't even come into the equation as he won't have won the leadership. It will be solely down to the leader of Labour to fight and win the corner for us. They had better deliver a massive victory at the next election no matter which left wing leader is at the helm. It shouldn't prove too difficult as they have masses of supporters only to willing to tread the pavements on a cold, frosty November night.

The Labour Party needs Mandelson before it becomes the communist party

I have no problem with labour members in the lords, they are needed there . I do have a problem with someone who has been a member for a few weeks, carries out an alleged independent inquiry and whoosh is in the lords , fishy

That should be good not god- Freudian slip?

The only god thing about Mandelson was the joke about his visit to Hartlepool when he was standing as MP. His team decided that he would be seen as more a man of the people if he ordered Fish and chips in a local chippy. He was sent in with instructions, ordered his fish and chips,then glanced round and said, "Oh and some of that guacamole." (It was of course mushy peas)
Oh I know it's corny but somehow appropriate!

Isn't he in the House of Lords, anyway?
You shouldn't like him anymore, Annie.
You do not like Labour people being in the Lords.

Who the hell needs Mandelson?

So the really interesting thing Anniebach is why the PLP were unable to come up with a candidate who actually stood a chance of winning this contest?
As far as Pfizer goes of course they are interested in a presence in the UK the NHS is ripe for cherry picking. And Owen Smith is there to smooth the way.

Such attention given to Smith who will not win, distracts from Corbyn and Momentum I suppose

Agree Devo, a militant is now leader , they have got into the NEC, there will be deselection of good MP's replaced by far left MP's and the Labour Party will be a communist party, the only coup has been carried out by the far left . Corbyn will not be PM , the voters will not vote for a communist party , the damage has been done . Where is Mandelson when needed

Why should McDonnell want to take over from Corbyn? He's only two years younger.

Interesting, daphne.
Where did Owen Smith work for them?

Talking about Owen Smith, I think he ought to sort out the Labour Party membership purge, and his own PR.

tompride.wordpress.com/2016/08/30/oops-labour-suspends-disabled-woman-used-in-owen-smith-pr-campaign/

It seems to me that most, if not all MPs, lobby at some stage or another. I can understand JC and co wanting everything to be state funded but medical and pharmaceutical research costs an enormous amount of money. Is all lobbying wrong if it is done for a private firm?
obieone - Momentum's aim is not ultimately to put Corbyn in. It is to gain power and control over the machinery of the Labour Party. A vote for Corbyn will prove to be a vote for McDonnell or another of his ilk in the long term - and I don't give it that long. Those floating voters in the Labour Party who decided to give JC another go will quickly find out that he is not what they will get in the long run. I doubt he will still be in place come the next election.
I feel sorry for JC in a way because he actually had a reputation before he became leader and was on the back benches. I feel all that will be lost in the current fiasco. He was propelled into a position he didn't really want but which he took under pressure from others who quite frankly do not have his, the Labour Party's or the country's, best interests at heart.

As a footnote to the Pfizer/AZ affair. I expect people know that Pfizer has now closed its R & D facility in Cambridge. There are now only a dozen or so Pfizer staff in Cambridge. It was known all along that they wanted to asset strip AZ, despite assurances that there would be no job losses. Pfizer also wanted a UK presence for tax reasons.

The EDM was to try and ensure that no Pfizer jobs were lost and to encourage them to stay, whether the takeover of AZ was successful or not. Insiders knew at the time that jobs were going to be lost, which is what's happened.

Durhamjen

You are correct , I understand now that it was Astrazenica not Pfizer the protection was for. So now I understand and will holds my hand up!

So Pfizer is really distrusted and that's why Corbyn has said

"And that medical research shouldn’t be farmed out to big pharmaceutical companies like Pfizer and others but should be funded through the Medical Research Council."

I am in two minds about personally.

POGS. When you say momentum's aim is for Corbyn, not the labour party, what do you mean by that?

Perhaps you ought to read the EDM properly, POGS.
In no way does it say that they were calling for the continuance of the Pfizer bid. It said they noted the proposed takeover. How is that calling for the continuance of the bid?

Most EDMs state that they note what is happening.

The EDM weas to make sure that Pfizer did not close AstraZeneca if it did buy it out. It was to ensure that Britain continued in the forefront of scientific research in pharmaceuticals, not Pfizer, and continued R&D at Cambridge.

McDonnell was misinterpreted in the Huff article. Nowhere does the EDM say that they support Pfizer in the bid.

Sorry should have clarified.

The way I understand it the Corbyn supporters dislike Owen, thinking he is the devils spawn because he is/was a political lobbyist for Pfizer, Yes? He is being accused of wanting to see more privatisation in the NHS, although he has denied this etc.

In answer to that I think there could be a very 'interesting' list of names of past and present MP's from ALL political parties as to which MP has/is lobbying for this and that and the other to be honest and a can of worms could be opened.

I digress, sorry.

I am thinking of the Commons Early Day Motion when Corbyn and McDonnel were back benchers but were named as 'sponsors' of the motion. The best link I can put forward is this one.

'Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell urged the Tory Government two years ago to ensure Pfizer played a key role in the UK’s medical research sector.

In a Commons Early Day Motion (EDM), the then Labour backbenchers called on David Cameron to protect both jobs and the pharmaceutical firm’s potential assets in the UK following its proposed takeover of AstraZeneca.

The motion demanded that ministers take action in the Pfizer case to “ensure the UK continues to be a world-leader in science and pharmaceuticals research and development”.

Last week Corbyn said that medical research “shouldn’t be farmed out to big pharmaceutical companies like Pfizer and others but should be funded through the Medical Research Council”.

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/jeremy-corbyn-and-john-mcdonnell-owen-smith-pfizer-role-in-medical-research_uk_5795dd8ce4b0796a0b5ff2e8

So were they 'lobbying' or not when sponsoring the EDM calling for the continuance of Pfizer in the Astrazenica take over bid? I don't know .

Move forward in time and now Corbyn as Leader has apparently 'had a change of heart' as he has stated the opposite and medical research should NOT be farmed out to the likes of Pfizer. Another incident that John McDonnell had to put his smiling face on for to say Corbyn was 'misinterpreted' , at least he didn't say 'Look, he was only joking' this time.

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/john-mcdonnell-backtracks-jeremy-corbyns-8483352

All in all I don't understand why Owen is so hated, mistrusted by the Corbyn supporters could somebody tell me what he has done that has caused this problem with him and Pfizer. So far I see far more 'connections' between Corbyn and his past and organisations that would most certainly worry me more.