Ban on surgery for patients who are overweight or who smoke?

I'm just making this observation but I worked for many years with 2 ladies, who were overweight and smoked both managed to stop smoking but have not been able to control their weight. This despite many attempts they would both lose weight and them put it back on again. Also one lady used to wake in the night for a cigarette yet she has stopped smoking but her weight yoyos.It is something that puzzles me.

First of all, I m overweight, no one else's fault but mine, no will power.. How many overweight or obese people do you ever see in refugee camps or places where getting food is a problem. It seems now no one will take responsibility for their own well being. When doing operations you have to see the whole picture, George Best was mentioned, I loved him as a person, he played fantastic football and was a great personality and it was such a waste he had that addiction,, but what was the point of that transplant, it could have gone to someone grateful for the chance, who wanted to live, he fell off the wagon that many times. If you want to live you have to decide what you want most and Ho for it.

I hoped myself that im68 was being sarcastic. Although some people do talk about the old as if they will never be old

Wonder what it's like to be strong willed, decisive, free from human imperfections , I would think it makes one judgemental

You posted that comment above AB .....you were clearly criticising those with strong will, and able to make decisions. You also clearly were not thinking of those whose 'strong will' and being 'decisive' have been the very factors that, eventually, allowed them to overcome their addiction.

I'm asking that you rethink your statement and realise that being 'strong willed and decisive' isn't something to,be sneered at and certainly doesn't equate with being 'free from human imperfections'

I do know you to be a fair women and one, who in the past, has apologised for a comment which later proved to be untrue. I'm asking that you review your comments in the light of my post and my admiration for those who have overcome one of the worst scourges of all, that of alcoholism.

What an honest post luckylegs

To be fair to George Best, he fitted the criteria at the time - had been off the booze for the required length of time, was reasonably healthy and could have had a good few years left if he'd managed to stay sober.

No one can predict whether a patient with an addictive disease will relapse or not.

I was addicted to sex, alcohol, gambling and smoking. With a struggle, I managed to cure myself of three of them. But It was impossible, to cure the other one!!!

My close friend drank two bottles of wine every day for years. We could all see what it was doing to her and she was offered support by the Drs and others to give it up. No it was easier to carry on and so what to the risks. Then to her surprise she was diagnosed with liver cancer and do you know, she was able to stop just like that, never touched another drop. It was to late. I see whole families, mum dad and young kids who are quite frankly fat, this is not genetic it's just overeating and a bad life style being passed down. It is hard doing anything like losing weight, giving up something etc but you have to try if you want a life and nobody is perfect that they won't fall off ladder sometime or another but you have to just keep trying. I am far from perfect, a sweet tooth, on steroids and hate any exercise that hurts (I have RA) but it can be done but maybe just not all the time if that makes sense.

People were certainly not more healthy in the 40s and 50s Lizzypopbottle - but the kinds of diseases were different to today. There was a huge amount of heavy smoking that caused a great deal of disease. Deaths from coronary artery disease have more than halved since 1960.
As smoking rates have dropped and various aspects of health care improved, people on average are living a lot longer - so arguably, healthier. These days many people get cured of cancer who would not have survived in the 1950s.
What we do have is people living a long time in a state of ill-health caused by eating and drinking too much and exercising too little. This is expensive for the NHS. Diabetes uses up a significant % of the NHS budget for instance. www.diabetes.org.uk/about_us/news_landing_page/nhs-spending-on-diabetes-to-reach-169-billion-by-2035/
Yet the government have declined to put firm pressure on the food industry to reign in their relentless marketing of cheap sugary foods and drinks - see the thread on childhood obesity.

But why should it be down to the government to rein in the food industry's marketing of cheap foods and drinks? Is the general public so sheep-like that it will buy what is advertised willy-nilly? If so, there's something seriously wrong with society, not just the food industry.

It's very easy for manufacturers to get around legislatative measures. I think more should be done to make people aware of what they're putting into their bodies and what effect it will eventually have.

Anya, I cannot apologise to those who have criticised others who have problems , I congratulate them for overcoming their weight problems but why condemn those who have not ?

And Anya, I hive never heard anyone in AA who are recovering alcoholics condemn alcoholics

What about people who play sports and end up in A+E to be treated? Extreme sports like climbing? What about the numbers who clog up A+E on a weekend because of binge alcohol and social activities?

What about overweight people with learning disabilities? Or overweight people with severe mental health issues on medication that slows them down?

Where do value judgements over who gets treatment and who doesnt, begin and end?

AB..that's fine but people have to take the consequence when things don't work out and at the moment the consequence is the NHS is making a decision for this group of people to wait a year longer to see if they can change enough to improve their chances of a better outcome. And I am in total agreement with it.

SpankyGrandma, a mother of a daughter with learning disabilities believe me they have help with living a fairly healthy lifestyle and don't always need to be overweight.

I haven't seen anything about doctors making value judgements. However, if an operation or other very expensive procedure is unlikely to be successful, because the patient is obese, a heavy smoker or drinker, it does seem like a poor use of resources.

Somebody earlier in the thread mentioned prevention and supporting people to lose weight, etc. Unfortunately, these services are now controlled by local authorities and are being cut, which seems like a false economy.

I should also have added that mental health services have been cut. There is a definite correlation between unhealthy lifestyles and learning disabilities/mental health (eg depression), but as Barmyoldbat pointed out, it doesn't need to be like that. Again a false economy!

Unfortunately, these services are now controlled by local authorities and are being cut, which seems like a false economy.

Undoubtedly, daphnedill, but when people affected by the cuts fall by the wayside it's the NHS who has to pick them up, not the LAs concerned.

Yes people who are overweight should have some self discipline and lose weight. That may sound harsh but my goodness there are a great many fat people around and those include children. Greed has consequences, gluttony is awful and the bottom line is just that - gluttony. So many excuses these days. Too much eTing makes people fat full stop!

Complex and complicated are the most overused words in health and social care, these words mean nothing!

Barmyoldbat you're not so barmy ? A similar thing happened to my auntie. Everyone begged her to give up smoking but she reckoned it was her only pleasure. When she was diagnosed with lung cancer she gave them up, cold turkey. They gave her a year but she was incredibly lucky because the Freeman Hospital in Newcastle gave her laser treatment and she lived another 30 years!

The only way to lose weight is to eat healthily and to cut down on what you eat and drink, it's, as simple as that. Exercise is good for us all, but doesn't help much on the weight loss front unless you're a fitness fanatic, which most of us aren't! As well as medical help, people simply have to help themselves where obesity (unless it's caused by ill health) and smoking are concerned, if they want the medical profession to help them.

Don't you just hate those supposed motivational words people come out with?
Too bad! Here's one ?

Willpower is like a muscle. If you don't exercise it, it gets weaker!

I'm not a smoker or a heavy drinker but don't you think that the taxes charged on these items must go somewhat towards the nhs costs if things go wrong?

Well, it seems they've got their wish - everyone arguing with everyone else about who is "worthy" of treatment. It is the same method of dividing people that they use when cuts to welfare and public services are made.

As an example, Hattiehelga says "start charging health tourists and those who have not paid a penny into the system". Apart from emergency treatment, people from non-EU countries who want to access the NHS have to pay. Presumably those who haven't paid a penny into the service are either children, permanently unemployed people or people unable to work through disability or chronic illness. I certainly wouldn't deny any of these health care.

Much human behaviour carries a degree of risk, including - as anniebach said those who engage in sports, especially contact and extreme sports, and those who drive, ride motorcycles or bicycles. Being overweight is a risk factor but it is not inevitable that people who are overweight will have a bad outcome. A friend of my mum's - a lady in her early 80's - was fairly overweight when she had her hip operation. This was partly caused by the fact that her painful hip and a heart condition stopped her riding her bicycle and walking as much as she used to. However, she has recovered very well from the operation and is now able to walk more.

I agree that people with addictive behaviour - whether it be smoking, drinking, eating, etc. - should be encouraged and helped to give up their addictions but I don't think it is right that they should be denied treatment unless there is, in the unanimous opinion of the relevant doctors, a very high risk of danger to the patient or of a very poor outcome generally. I don't think cost should come into it.

Several famous and successful sportspersons have been smokers by the way. And jockeys tend to smoke to keep their weight down.

I do think that so far as weight is concerned there are some people who are just unfortunate in putting on weight very easily. (and I'm not saying that as a defence for myself - I am overweight but not significantly so). It is easy to be smug and self-congratulatory if you are one of those people for whom weight has never been a problem. I also think that these days a lot of people have a very unhealthy relationship to food - with increasing numbers of people being overweight at the same time as increasing numbers of people suffering from anorexia and bulimia. So it is a complex issue with no simple answers.