Ban on surgery for patients who are overweight or who smoke?

People who smoke pay a lot of tax on their cigarettes. I agree it is unhealthy and they should be given every encouragement to stop - prevention being better than the cure or worse!

But they are more than paying their way so if they need more treatment they should get it.

They will do just that whitewave

Next the middle class will get annoyed because they are paying their NH contributions, but having to pay for some treatment. Just as well go with private insurance.

Rationing only for the poor. If you can pay? No problem.

I had cataract surgery on both my eyes a few years ago apparently it runs on my family as my 2 sisters needed surgery ..Luckily I had a very good optician who referred me quickly for it as Somerset Health Authority were making it harder for people to have the operation before you were nearly blind .How much would it cost the NHS if you had a fall or accident because you could not see .The reason I got it done was I was still working and driving What rationing is going to be next?

Of course it's judging. Denying medical treatment to one section of society because it's believed it would be more beneficial to another section of society is at best being judge mental, at worse discriminating.

That's not judging. Refusing medical treatment which is unlikely to have a successful outcome is denying funding to people who could benefit more.

It is about judging, were it to have been enforced it would have judged who could or could not have surgery based on whether or not someone's a smoker or overweight.

Refusing medical treatment isn't being supportive, it's being judge mental.

Once again...

This isn't about 'judging'. It's about getting people to live healthier lifestyles. Why wouldn't people want to do that and be so rude to people whose jobs it is to support them?

That's what I meant about trying to change lifestyles without appearing like a patronising nanny state. Meanwhile, some sections of the media (and GNers) will be outraged at the obesity epidemic and blame single mums force feeding their children sausage rolls. Maybe mirrors should be prescribed.

What a person actually weighs isn't necessarily an indicator of whether or not they're over weight, nor is their BMI.

I'm in my mid 50's, have been on HRT since my early 30's which increases bone density hence it's positive effect on osteoporosis. I attend a gym 3 to 4 times a week and have done so for several years, regularly lifting weights which increases my muscle mass; muscle weighs more than fat.

People are often surprised when they know how much I weigh, expecting it to be less because I don't look over weight yet, if I were to do my BMI I would most certainly come out as weighing more than I should.

I smoke on average 10 to 12 cigarettes a day, haven't been to the doctors for years (apart from getting sleeping pills due to Mr. S.'s snoring) and enjoy more than the occasional glass of wine.

I received a 'phone call from our doctor's surgery several months ago, was told they were updating their records and asked if I smoked. Before answering, I asked if they'd be asking me any other questions and when I was told 'no', I told them it was none of their business as it isn't, unless of course I develop health problems directly linked to smoking.

I see no reason why anyone should be judged and then denied medical treatment. As so many other posters have pointed out, where would it end? Would someone who is no longer overweight, no longer smokes or no longer drinks alcohol be denied treatment because they have a medical condition bought about by the fact that they used to do all, or one of those things?

A couple of months ago I took my brother to hospital for tests and wasat how many members of the medical profession were not just overweight but how many could have been judged as morbidly obese.

NICE claims that preventative medicine is good value for money, so it does make sense to invest in prevention. In any case, the NHS is no longer responsible for most public health - local authorities are, but there's little incentive for them to spend, because they don't have to pick up the pieces.

I agree that changing cultural attitudes are long-term and very difficult to achieve without seeming like a patronising 'nanny state'.

Cultural attitude change is long term - not something that can be achieved very quickly.

It raises the question whether the NHS should be responsible for prevention as well as cure. Given that this government is hell bent in screwing the NHS it is highly unlikely that there will sufficient resources for a comprehensive health service - we can forget education and health

I doubt if her pay would fund many operations. I read the report and one of the issues was that there weren't enough managers to oversee what was going on.

I put on a lot of weight prior to having both hips replaced, following the op I am finally beginning to shed some of it. I was overweight not because I am fat and lazy but because it was too painful to walk at all and I had a long wait for surgery. I also had several other health issues contributing to weight gain. How quick the media is to jump on band wagons without looking properly into why things happen.If the government looked at other ways, and there are many they could save money instead of constantly picking on those that can least help themselves then maybe the health service would not be forced into such ridiculous decisions. The vast salary the chief executive of the health authority in the south was on prior to being fired and her subsequent grossly over the top severance pay would go a long way to helping pay for operations. May be the health service should look at the salary's they pay their top line management. Sorry to rant but this has really made me cross.

That's not true, Tricia. My brother-in-law recently had a mild heart attack and had stents within a couple of days. He was a heavy smoker, who's cut down a bit (allegedly), but still smokes.

"In fact our relationship with food has gone askew." I couldn't agree more! I read somewhere that it's our brains rather than our stomachs which dictate how much we eat.

I'm pretty sure I know the answers too, whitewave, but I didn't want to make assumptions. The challenge now is to change culture and lifestyles, which isn't easy without getting people's backs up.

After I had stents put into a partially blocked artery (in France) about 10 of us patients had some talks on healthy living. Nearly all were still smokers, and you know how nicotine clogs the arteries. I had stopped about 15 years ago TG.
A nurse told the smokers that if they were in UK they wouldn't be operated on until they had given up smoking. I was doubtful about this, but that's what she said. 2006.

The reason is that food high in saturated fat and calorie laden, as well as being relatively easy to prepare is generally cheaper.

Poor nutrition/food education is also a key.
Culture also plays a part.
Obesity comes with a myriad of reasons. Scapegoating is unpleasant and ill-informed.
In fact our relationship with food has gone askew. As well as obesity we also have a relatively large percentage whose relationship results in anorexia etc.

@Lewlew

I'm not sure what point you're making.

durhamjen Thanks for pointing that out.

I double checked and whilst WHO has not put out another such comprehensive/controversial list, this top ten aritcle is from this year and follows on with similar rankings, but when criteria change, it changes other attributes, but for the top ten.

gazettereview.com/2016/04/countries-with-the-best-health-care/

Cheers for that

@annsixty

If you mean Katrina Percy at Southern Health, her salary is quoted in the Telegraph as £240,000 and in the BBC as between £180,000 and £190,000. The report into Southern Health stated that a big part of the problem was that the service was 'overstretched'.

Yes quite Granny23 - there are a number of things that the government finds money for while the NHS is being put under pressure until it crumbles. Part of a long term plan to promote private health care by undermining the NHS. HS2 for instance (Mr Osborne's "we're investing in infrastructure" hobby horse) That would pay for a a better NHS too.
Re the NHS Trust chief exec (mental health trust) who refused to resign... I think the move of putting her on a different job title while maintaining her salary is part of a plan to replace her without incurring the costs of a protracted legal battle. Trouble is with the present Trust structure is that it is not easy to sack the chief exec - it's the board that would have to do it if the person unwilling to resign quietly. This is equivalent to the board of governors in a school sacking the head. Really difficult to do while staying within employment law and not getting into deep legal water. And really difficult to do if the senior person digs their heels in. I suspect she might be finally gone in 12 month's time.

It's not that knocking obesity has become 'fashionable'. Obesity is an epidemic, damages people's health and it's expensive to treat the results. Any government which ignored it would be irresponsible.

Dismissing 'expert' opinion seems to be 'fashionable' these days. Even the NHS recognises that people see interventions as the 'nanny state'.

Losing weight and/or keeping within a normal weight range is much more difficult than some people on here make out. In the developed world, we no longer eat because we're hungry, but because eating itself is pleasurable. We have ads and marketing which link food with sex, lifestyle and enjoyment. It's not like putting fuel in a car.

Nevertheless, about two thirds of over 60s are overweight and a quarter to a third are obese. It makes sense to try and reduce that, because the individuals themselves would be healthier and medical interventions would be more effective. This isn't about some bullying government trying to deny people pleasures, which is why I think it's short-sighted to cut public health spending. I've read that some authorities have already cut smoking cessation clinics. My authority (and possibly others) has cut prescriptions for the leisure centre to people who have had heart attacks or need to lose weight, etc. The now outsourced leisure centre has cut the gentle exercise and swimming sessions for over 55s. The local council has also banned the 'boot camp' sessions which used to take place on the publicly owned common twice a week.

I think there should be some serious research about why people in the North East and/or from poorer families are much more likely to be obese than those in areas such as mine, which is relatively affluent. Until the powers that be really understand why people overeat and get fat, nothing will happen.

Oh here we go again - let's make those who are overweight or have a nicotine addiction (because that's what it is) feel even worse about themselves. Lets' narrow it down even more - no black people, no disabled people, no people over 60 (they'll be dead soon anyway), no alcoholics, no people who are too thin........and so it goes on. It's fashionable to knock overweight people at the moment, obesity and all that. It makes me so angry, we are all here on this earth to LIVE and the medical profession should be treating everybody the same and whilst it's ok to mention weight and stopping smoking etc. life is not like that. My partner lost 6 stones a couple of years ago and if you looked at him then you would still say "there is an obese male". It's never that simple - leave people alone and treat everyone, not discriminate against them.

DJ In local parlance a 'blue peel' is like the cyanide capsule that spies carry.