Ban on surgery for patients who are overweight or who smoke?

With regard to the Junior Doctors strike.

I am beginning to see a parrallel with Thatcher and the miners.
The Thatcher government wanted rid if the mining industry, so they took on the miners and we know the result.
I reckon that the Tories are keen to privatise health and taking on the Junior Doctors is one step towards encouraging a privatised system. Another nail in the coffin.

Is it right to say or even label all obese people as having problems?
Some do just overeat for no reason?

For looking at the WHO's standings of international healthcare, this is interesting:

thepatientfactor.com/canadian-health-care-information/world-health-organizations-ranking-of-the-worlds-health-systems/

They have called the ban off now. If anyone's actually interested.

I hope that anyone complaining on this thread that the NHS doesn't have enough money to cover non-essential operations for everyone didn't vote for any political party that has allowed about 10 million( if that figure is honest which I doubt)extra people to enter this country over the last 20 years. The NHS was never set up to care 'from cradle to the grave' for so many people and its founders didn't envisage the invention of costly treatments to prolong life or that men would want to become women etc. There is a limit on money for everything the government is expected to provide so decisions have to be made which not everyone will like or agree with. Take measures to severely control the population by removing financial incentives to breed by restricting child benefit/child tax credit for those who choose to have more than two children, restrict immigration and expect people to take take better care of themselves and pay for unnecessary cosmetic procedures or problems caused entirely by their chosen lifestyle, limit foreign aid to help with natural disasters only etc. and then there may be enough money to help those who are suffering through no fault of their own.

I agree with restricting or maybe postponing some treatments for smokers and people who are grossly overweight so long as they are encouraged and supported by NHS to rectify the problem first. This could be part of the pre-op procedure to encourage a more healthy way of life and increase the possibility of the operation being a success. People can't help getting old, it comes to us all but they can help themselves (barring medical problems) with addiction and weight and fitness concerns

We haven't even mentioned the epidemic of sexually transmitted diseases that could be avoided with more sensible use of available precautions......I regret now that I chose to spend my life chained to a desk job and eating crap because I was so tired....when taking drugs and shagging more would have kept me thin and at the top of the career ladder. The last insult that is socially permissible is the 'fat' one ......'

Obesity is a complex issue, not just greedy people get fat. I get tired of it, after 50 off years paying in I am told that I can't have my knee op......but have seen in my work in the NHS people from abroad come here for maternity care and operations and go home not having paid a penny.

I am pretty sure older people are just neglected to death, my dad died last year when he was drugged to avoid end of life pain and then denied food and fluids for 10 days ...this is the Liverpool Care pathway, which is supposed to be banned, but is used to get rid of the oldies. I complained and the Ombudsman said it was 'the right care', if my old dad had been as ill as they t old me he was before I agreed to palliative care, he wouldn't have last 10 days on their starvation diet.

I won't get my knee replacement but have the LCP to look forward to.......

It is so easy to judge another person but to deny them health care ?????????

Obieone, in my opinion it's wrong to put people into neat little piles, the obese are greedy, the alcholic is weak willed, politicians are self serving, on it goes, but they are individuals with their problems, faults, weaknesses , no one is perfect

The NHS is suffering from severe financial shortages,( where oh where is the £350,000,000?) but that is the problem that needs solving. If conditions are applied before an operation on health grounds, that's fair enough, but I am very worried about the trend that this proposal might start, away from the basic principles of the NHS.

Quizqueen have you not heard? Where have you been??
It's not the young people who come here to work that are making the big demands on the NHS. Most of them are under 35 and in good health. It's an age group that don't get ill very often. Very cheap to keep when it comes to healthcare.
And the other thing that you seem to have overlooked is the number of immigrants working in the NHS. Without their hard work the NHS would have to shut half its services down.
And have you checked who works in the care sector in large parts of England lately - immigrants, coping with the increased demand.
If you stopped immigration tomorrow the population would be falling quite sharply as there are a lot fewer births than deaths. This is a major problem if it occurs in a country with little or no immigration, such as Japan.
It's the UK nationals that are creating the extra demand by getting older and, in some cases, by not taking care of themselves very well.

Oh Please !!
Smokers , Foodies ,sweet eaters, drinkers , motorists ,unmarried mothers. Everyone does SOMETHING which could be labelled a cause of medical intervention being needed.
Perhaps we should be allowed medical care on how many insurance contributions we've made ,that would then stop people picking on older people who have age related illnesses , but at least worked and paid in for future care for their entire working lives

Read the first page and part of the second but not going to read the rest.

Anyone can lose weight if they want to, whatever their medical condition. It is simply a matter of consuming less than you use. I speak as someone who has such a condition and can only lose weight if I average about 850 calories a day. To say that lack of mobility makes you put on weight is to make an excuse. Would you say that all athletes would be anorexic if they ate normally? No, of course not, they have to eat more because they use more.

This is not about people who are overweight it is about people who are obese and is not punishing them it is helping them if they want the help.

I am obese, I smoke 20 a day, I am hospital phobic, I have caring responsibilities. Today I became officially elderly. I have chronic depression but will only be prescribed the lowest dose of anti-D because I am elderly. I have Willets-Ekbom syndrome (Restless Leg)and am told I have augmentation and it will become progressively worse with age.

Having completed my three-score-and ten, in a law abiding, productive, tax paying manner, I think I should now be issued with my 'Blue Pill' to be taken when I become a burden rather than an asset, when I can no longer stich on a smile and face the next day.

I have perused most of the thread and deplore the enthusiasm for denying health care to various groupings. I have seen no mention of the billions wasted on Trident which, at best, could only ensure that we ALL die of Nuclear Fall-out rather than blast. If these billions were spent on housing, social care, rehab, Health and other Education and the NHS perhaps we could ALL live healthier, happier lives. It seems to me that we are, collectively, voluntarily living in poverty, (relative to the wealth of the nation) in order to have the biggest, poshest funeral.

An article today in the DT highlights a story of (I think)) a CEO of a hospital trust, the paper has been consigned to waste, earning £240,000 a year who has left her job as her position is untenable.
There have been lots of complaints about this particular trust, however the staggering thing is that she is being kept on at the same salary and conditions as an advisor.
How many times is this happening?
A drop in the ocean money wise unless this not uncommon.

Very badly worded on my part, I hope you get the jist.

Happy birthday anyway Granny23.

Jingl, some of us have already said it's been called off.

Lewlew, I think your WHO link is out of date.

Granny23, I think you'll find the waste of money on Trident, etc., mentioned on the NHS thread.
I agree with you.
Happy birthday. Are you sure you want Viagra?

The only reason the NHS is short of money is because this government wants it so, so that all the people will be demoralised and not notice it being sold off to private healthcare companies.

I guess preventive interventions would be pretty expensive to start with but, as I mentioned before, most of us only see our GP when something's already wrong with us. If everyone was called to see their practice nurse/GP, say, every 5 years, for a general check up, and a family history recorded, many possible future health issues could be avoided, e.g. type 2 diabetes, smoking related heart and lung problems, joint and mobility etc. That must save money in the long run, surely, as well as saving a lot of pain, anger, frustration and grief? Expecting people to take responsibility for their own health seems to be a non-starter. Of course, many people wouldn't attend but that could be recorded too...

DJ In local parlance a 'blue peel' is like the cyanide capsule that spies carry.

Oh here we go again - let's make those who are overweight or have a nicotine addiction (because that's what it is) feel even worse about themselves. Lets' narrow it down even more - no black people, no disabled people, no people over 60 (they'll be dead soon anyway), no alcoholics, no people who are too thin........and so it goes on. It's fashionable to knock overweight people at the moment, obesity and all that. It makes me so angry, we are all here on this earth to LIVE and the medical profession should be treating everybody the same and whilst it's ok to mention weight and stopping smoking etc. life is not like that. My partner lost 6 stones a couple of years ago and if you looked at him then you would still say "there is an obese male". It's never that simple - leave people alone and treat everyone, not discriminate against them.

It's not that knocking obesity has become 'fashionable'. Obesity is an epidemic, damages people's health and it's expensive to treat the results. Any government which ignored it would be irresponsible.

Dismissing 'expert' opinion seems to be 'fashionable' these days. Even the NHS recognises that people see interventions as the 'nanny state'.

Losing weight and/or keeping within a normal weight range is much more difficult than some people on here make out. In the developed world, we no longer eat because we're hungry, but because eating itself is pleasurable. We have ads and marketing which link food with sex, lifestyle and enjoyment. It's not like putting fuel in a car.

Nevertheless, about two thirds of over 60s are overweight and a quarter to a third are obese. It makes sense to try and reduce that, because the individuals themselves would be healthier and medical interventions would be more effective. This isn't about some bullying government trying to deny people pleasures, which is why I think it's short-sighted to cut public health spending. I've read that some authorities have already cut smoking cessation clinics. My authority (and possibly others) has cut prescriptions for the leisure centre to people who have had heart attacks or need to lose weight, etc. The now outsourced leisure centre has cut the gentle exercise and swimming sessions for over 55s. The local council has also banned the 'boot camp' sessions which used to take place on the publicly owned common twice a week.

I think there should be some serious research about why people in the North East and/or from poorer families are much more likely to be obese than those in areas such as mine, which is relatively affluent. Until the powers that be really understand why people overeat and get fat, nothing will happen.

Yes quite Granny23 - there are a number of things that the government finds money for while the NHS is being put under pressure until it crumbles. Part of a long term plan to promote private health care by undermining the NHS. HS2 for instance (Mr Osborne's "we're investing in infrastructure" hobby horse) That would pay for a a better NHS too.
Re the NHS Trust chief exec (mental health trust) who refused to resign... I think the move of putting her on a different job title while maintaining her salary is part of a plan to replace her without incurring the costs of a protracted legal battle. Trouble is with the present Trust structure is that it is not easy to sack the chief exec - it's the board that would have to do it if the person unwilling to resign quietly. This is equivalent to the board of governors in a school sacking the head. Really difficult to do while staying within employment law and not getting into deep legal water. And really difficult to do if the senior person digs their heels in. I suspect she might be finally gone in 12 month's time.

@annsixty

If you mean Katrina Percy at Southern Health, her salary is quoted in the Telegraph as £240,000 and in the BBC as between £180,000 and £190,000. The report into Southern Health stated that a big part of the problem was that the service was 'overstretched'.

durhamjen Thanks for pointing that out.

I double checked and whilst WHO has not put out another such comprehensive/controversial list, this top ten aritcle is from this year and follows on with similar rankings, but when criteria change, it changes other attributes, but for the top ten.

gazettereview.com/2016/04/countries-with-the-best-health-care/

Cheers for that