Is he being too strict?

@Jalima

The pupils for whom the school receives Pupil Premium (ie all those who have been in receipt of free school meals over the last six years and service children) receive two basic school uniforms (without PE kit) twice during their school life and I've just seen that the supplier has a savings scheme (not sure how it works). Strangely enough, I don't think I've ever heard any parents or pupils complaining. It's just accepted that it's a good school, which most children in the town attend, and uniform is part of it.

@gillybob

The trouble with trousers is that they come in all sorts of widths and styles. Girls will try to wear jeggings or very baggy trousers, if they're in fashion. Boys try to wear those trousers which show their underpants and have a crutch down to the knees.

Daphnedill, no my question about skirts was to Luckygirl, who said she thought it was odd to make girls dress like little men...

Come on, we've all tried to flout uniform rules, haven't we? Rolling up our skirts? Pulling threads out of our ties? Making massive knots of our ties?

Just teenage rebellion. Twas ever thus.

Imho if there's to be strict uniform, make it so that it's as difficult as possible to rebel against. So, say, tracksuit, for boys and girls, plus trainers over a t shirt. No faff, no flouting.

No blazers, which are impractical and unnecessary. No ties. No shirts that need ironing. No separate gym clothes. No sexist differentiation.

Simples. Or, alternatively, no uniform. Just everyday clothes.

But then you get, as someone mentioned, the pressure to wear a certain brand, or a particular type of trainer etc. And there'd still have to be rules in place, surely, or you'd get some pupils coming into school in their pyjamas or wearing next to nothing!

I suppose the most important thing to consider about school uniform is what effect it has on the end result of a child's school career. Personally, I liked uniform for my dc as it meant no arguments about what to wear each day and it also differentiates between school & home.

On the other hand, I accept the points of view of friends' with children at non-uniform schools when they say their 'mufti' school wear doesn't affect their learning and those schools are no different from the uniform schools in their area.

Having said which....if you choose to send you child to a school which has uniform then you should abide by the rules, providing they're not daft ones such as grey socks having to be the exact shade of grey prescribed. Uniform should also be inexpensive, which by the sounds of it is not the case at some schools.

SueDonim I this area you don't 'choose' to send your child to a certain school. There is one large academy with two sites unless the parents are able to send their children on a twenty minute train journey.
Fortunately these academies uniforms can be supermarket bought..
The problem is the two primary academies. That have purple blazers, striped purple and gold ties and purple tartan skirts for the girls. All only available through the school OTT for a five year old.

Blimey who can actually choose a school these days ? My DGC can't even get into the 3 nearest primary's to where they live!

ana there may be pressure to deck oneself out in brands, perhaps. We don't know that until it's tried out. Most of the teenagers I see wear jeans, converse, hoodies. Maybe Hollister or Jack Wills, but at least these items will be worn outside the classroom as well as inside it.

I think it's about time we started to respect young people and give them the opportunity to make sensible choices about clothing.

@gillybob

Did they apply at the normal time (ie age 4). What usually happens is that parents don't like the local primary, so apply to the nearest schools they like, which are already full with children who are higher priority. The biggest problems are usually with mid-year admissions.

Good on that Headmaster, sets high standards and wants to maintain them. He has started as he means to go on.
My children always had a uniform, school is about learning not a fashion parade. Uniforms in my opinion gives the pupils a belief they are going to school to learn and to work. They can keep their individuality for evenings school holidays and weekends when they can dress how they like

On Mumsnet there is a thread about a 5 year old losing his book bag in the classroom on the first day. It seems to be an essential piece of equipment for the school and will cost £30 to replace??!! WTF??

Rolling up our skirts?
Skirts? We wore those awful gymslips!

Any deviation from school uniform (even out of school) resulted in punishment, prefects were very ready to dole out punishment too!

Tracksuits? sloppy clothes result in a sloppy attitude. It's bad enough with some mothers taking children to school in their pyjamas.

I don't think they do make sensible choices about clothing though gettingonabit. Even at primary school there can be a certain 'sniffiness' about who has what resulting in cliques excluding one child or another.
It has got worse over the years.

gillybob I know how difficult it can be in certain areas to be allocated a place in the nearest school.

DGD's book bag cost £12 I think, ordered weeks ago and only just arrived in time for her to start school.
What's wrong with a little backpack?

I think sensible attitudes towards uniforms, book bags, PE kit etc etc should prevail, anything above and beyond what is needed to look smart and conform within reason to the school's uniform policy is a commercial racket. I wonder if the schools get a cut from these firms who have jumped on the bandwagon of exclusive supply?

jalima I don't know if you remember that documentary-can't remember what it was called-about the educational experiment involving a swap of educational styles with the Chinese?

The kids were all put in tracksuits to ensure that 1) they all looked the same and therefore zero differentiation on gender and 2) to stop their clothing becoming a distraction.

It worked. If it works for the high expectations of the Chinese, why not us in the UK?

This is one of those subjects on which I find it difficult to come down on one side or the other.

I admit to liking to see children dressed smartly in school uniforms and I can see that, in some cases, it can create a feeling of belonging, cohesion and pride in your school (though, apparently, this isn't necessarily the outcome). I also feel that having a basic uniform to some degree prevents the sort of fashion one upmanship that might arise if children could turn up in whatever they liked.

But I also think that schools should be about gaining knowledge and learning new skills, and thinking about what makes a decent society and how each individual - whatever their abilities - can contribute to making it so. I think the rigid application of rules re uniforms suggests that artificial and irrelevant goals are being set that have very little to do with true education and more to do with conditioning children to accepting "rules". Some might say it's important for children to obey authority, others might think it is more important for them to develop self-discipline and a sense of responsibility.

I think the headmaster who sent home a girl because her shoes, though flat and black, were suede and didn't conform to what he thought was appropriate, was being overly picky.

Apparently most European state schools, including Germany, do not have uniforms and it doesn't seem to have affected their education system.

No, I didn't see it gettonabit

I suppose the one thing you could say is that they are comfy .....

I admit I'm not that au fait with the English school system as I live north of the border. Most children go to their catchment area school so choice doesn't really come into for us unless you can afford private education. I was under the impression the English system alowed parents a choice, because I see endless online discussions about which school is best for any given child. Already my son is talking about which school will be best for his child, who was only 2yo last month!

But I also think that schools should be about gaining knowledge and learning new skills, and thinking about what makes a decent society
I think that is probably why I am in favour of school uniform - everyone does look the same, so there is no need for fashion oneupmanship (good phrase) to be a distraction.

When I was at school the most heinous crime you could commit was to be seen in the street without your hat. One girl got a detention for decorating hers with cherry blossom. They occasionally measured our skirts to make sure they weren't too short and we were only allowed to wear nylon stockings or white ankle socks. For some reason knee high white socks were strictly forbidden - I never have worked that one out. We had to wear flat black or brown shoes but no one cared what they were made of and I don't think this headmaster would have approved of the winkle pickers I wore for years.

I don't think anyone dared take off their hat but some hats were perched very precariously on the backs of ponytails
The worst crime was eating in the street in school uniform - or speaking to a boy through the school railings!

I am not a fan of using uniform to try to show who is in control. In the military /fire brigade/police etc. strict adherence to dress rules is important to build the discipline of unthinking obedience as the work they do is often 'life & death'situations. Schools do not need this level of control.

I know many parents find uniform useful and so though I personally do not like them or see them as important for school I would subscribe to a basic dress code that might include a colour scheme and basic 'Health & Safety' rules regarding shoes and hair style.
If a school cannot create a purposeful, safe & well ordered atmosphere so that kids can learn new stuff without insisting on artificially stringent dress rules something is very wrong with the school's leadership.

Hear, hear!

jalima kids in uncomfortable clothing often fidget and cannot concentrate. Wearing a joggers or tailored trousers does not affect ones ability to think!! Einstein had a great mind but was incredibly untidy.
In my experience people who like to 'look smart' use that as a cover for insecurity or inability!

No daphnedill they moved house in April to a new area . There is one school virtually on their doorstep and another 2 around a mile away in opposite directions . Have applied to all 3 and been refused . Currently they have a very long journey to and from their old school everyday . Fine if I can take them in the car ( I live around 5 miles away from them) but it's an hour and a half either way using public transport/walking . have appealed to the LEA and currently awaiting an appeal date.