LibDems win Council seat in Sheffield

Labour ,is the party over - tonight Panorama 8.30 BBC1

labourlist.org/2016/09/james-schneider/

For a bit of balance.

He's in favour of having more democracy in the party but doesn't trust the members to vote for the shadow cabinet.
Obviously has a different meaning of democracy to me.

Nasty again, Annie. Calling the membership who do not agree with you vermin.

I read www.theyworkforyou.com quite regularly, Annie. I assume trisher does as well. I am just not going to tell you who I would vote for to only be shot down. You make your own mind up.

This is what Smith thinks should happen.

"If he was serious about trying to unify the party then he would taking serious the notion of going back to the traditional method we had of guaranteeing that their was some balance in the shadow Cabinet, and everybody felt in the party they had some representation, which was election through the PLP.

I am in favour of us having more democracy in the Labour Party, but I don’t think Jeremy and his team can get away with saying this is all about an olive branch, when really and truly it is about deepening the divisions he has created in the party.”

He thinks that the membership gets all the representation it needs through the PLP voting. That is so obviously untrue for those members who do not have a Labour MP. Does he think they don't matter?

It is a total shambles Daphne , but it is a total Corbyn- Momentum shambles .

After the wisdom shared here on who to vote into the shadow cabinet will all those momentum students spend their time pouring over the voting records of MP's? I doubt it.

Ana, Corbyn said in a radio interview this morning he attends rallies around the country and sees so many familiar faces where ever he goes, perhaps he doesn't know they same familiar faces are bused in

Easy to suggest looking for solutions not problems, if one's homes was infested with vermin one could not dismiss the problems

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/momentum-dispatches-investigation-shows-supporters-being-told-to-flood-into-labour-party_uk_57de8fc6e4b05d79136ff605

Should be interesting. 7.25 this evening, Channel 4.

You mean you don't want to liberalise Labour, daphne?

"do you think you have actually persuaded a single person on her who might have voted for Corbyn to change his or her mind and vote for Smith?"

Well, reading exchanges on here (and elsewhere) have persuaded me not to vote Labour, because it seems a total shambles. My vote doesn't matter anyway, but it might if I move to a marginal constituency.

If they are deselected then I suggest you approach the replacement and ask a few questions- not too difficult surely! MPs do leave and retire so some new people are always there and they are usually very keen to share their ideas. Really Anniebach I do think it might be a good idea if you started looking at solutions rather than problems.

Good idea about theyworkforyou, trisher.
You can even put a word or a phrase in, and you will be alerted every time it is discussed in parliamentary debates, and you will be directed to the person involved, too.

But trisher, no point in asking the one's I know, they are on Momentums deselection list and the leaders hit list so will not be MP's, there will be so many new MP's with no voting record

It's not a heavy burden to place on members.
They are, after all, used to discussing and debating.
He's not asking the general public.

Annie, do you think you have actually persuaded a single person on her who might have voted for Corbyn to change his or her mind and vote for Smith?

You have given no positive reason to vote for Smith.

You look at their voting record and their questions record Annie. You can access it on They Work For You. Most MPs also have websites and express what their particular areas of interest are on there. You could as you know them as well ask what they would like to do most.

Oops, sorry , forgot Diane Abbot and McDonald are secure, one a former bed companion and the other the leaders campaign manager and spokesman

As a member of the labour party who does know several Labour MP's personally I would appreciate advice

The leader of the party wants members to have a vote in selecting his shadow cabinet , who would make a really good education minister, Home Secretary, foreign Secretary, defence Secretary - health and chancellor has been decided.

What are the strengths and weaknesses of the Labour MP's , who is the best man/woman for the shadow cabinet , this is a heavy burden to place on members is it not?

The few I know are on the momentum deselection list so they don't count.

Do I toss a coin, draw their names from a hat?

Annie I know you have a perfect right to express your views but it would be good if you refrained from casting accusations which have no basis in fact and certainly if they have happened cannot be linked to Corbyn. You perpetually harp on about bricks through windows and rape which are criminal acts and should be reported and dealt with by the proper authorities. As for unemployment I think most of us have faced this throughout our working life, why shouldn't MPs? There is after all no such thing as a job for life any more.

thank you thatbags.

I am listening to Today and interview with supporters and with Corbyn, he has told the crowd he will win the general election and he has told the Today reporter all that is needed to win is numbers .

A newspaper is for sale at the rally the seller said it was formerly The Tribune and that is printed in it.

I heard last night there is talk that fourteen of the original shadow cabinet will rejoin.

Proof for the young that bullying is good. Bricks through windows, threats of unemployment, threats of rape .

Wonder who Momentum will select to stand in Camerons constituency .

A vote for Corbyn is a vote for a Tory government

I don't think anniebach can be accused of supporting her "party, right or wrong". She is and has been, quite clearly and obviously, criticising the Labour Party as led by Jeremy Corbyn. So are a lot of other commentaors throughout the media who have no personal allegiance to the Party, and so are the majority of Labour MPs. The criticisms, whether one agrees with them or not, are reasonable when you get down to the crux of the issue which is that the Labour Party is making itself unelectable so it will not be in a position for the foreseeable future (so it seems) to help the very people it was founded to help.

This is a perfectly cogent argument and anniebach has made it bravely and well on Gransnet.

The hero worship/cult following of Jeremy Corbyn and Momentum is an amazing phenomenon to watch. ab has also commented on that and made clear the effect that has had on her. I have felt that effect too. I'm in political limbo because of current Labour Party happenings.

I've just seen your last remarks anniebach and I think they show that you are incapable of taking part in a sensible discussion but instead resort to making personal and inflammatory remarks about people with whom you disagree.

I think durhamjen's link to the Paul Mason article did provide some balance. It is common knowledge, and Mason has made no secret of the fact, that he is on the left. He does not, as some commentators do, try to present himself as a disinterested bystander whilst at the same time using innuendo, ridicule and "loaded" words and phrases to put his own slant on what purports to be a factual report.

A recent examination carried out by the LSE and Birkbeck of 40 prime time TV news bulletins and 465 on line news articles from 8 web sites found that over half of the news articles and two-thirds of all editorials and opinion pieces were critical of Corbyn.

A few days before Corbyn was elected as leader, a Panorama report entitled "Jeremy Corbyn: Labour's Earthquake" was broadcast. Every critic of Corbyn was wheeled out: Tristram Hunt, David Blunkett, Charles Clarke, etc. etc. and the whole tone of the programme - including the menacing background music - created a sense of foreboding and danger.

The attacks on him were relentless - each day there were attempts to discredit him as a politician and person - his dress sense, his age, his supposed lack of intelligence, his alleged lack of patriotism, his gullibility, etc. etc. etc. There came a point when even those people who didn't really rate him were starting to feel a bit uncomfortable about the onslaught. As Paul Mason said, the tactics changed. It was hard to portray Corbyn as some sort of demonic force - much more effective to target Momentum - containing hundreds of people - and portray them as a faceless mass of either naive "hippies/groupies" who haven't "grown up", or "fanatics", "entryists" and "militants". As has been said several times before, it is difficult to understand why there is such criticism of Momentum, which supports Corbyn, when there are several groups, including Progress, Saving Labour and Labour Tomorrow, whose ongoing purpose is to reinforce a right wing agenda and whose immediate purpose is to get rid of Corbyn.

anniebach You seem to see yourself as morally superior because of your lengthy and unbroken membership of the Labour Party. Indeed, you have referred to several of us as "morally bankrupt" because our views are different from your own. durhamjen said she had lost faith in the party following the decision of most of its MPs to back, with little discussion or interrogation of the facts, the invasion of another country half way across the world from us. I believe her decision was a perfectly honourable one and I wish I had taken it myself. The notion of "my party - or my country - right or wrong" is, I think, a dangerous one.

Sorry, Annie, you are getting nasty and personal now.
Tories care more than I do.

How dare you!
You are right. You are not worth talking to.

Jen, think sbout it, you are !really over excited about the increase in membership, come the election how many votes will be lost if Corbyn is leader? You believe there are more momentum supporters than there are voters in the country? And you saud .i was talking crisp

No point in you and I saying anymore to each other, you are concerned for Corbyn, my concern is fir the vunerable eho need a lsbour government. I would add I find your posts on other threads criticising the Tories for lack of care for the vunerable hypocritical, even the Tories care more than you