International Peace Day

How the hell does an innocuous question of 'does anyone else wear a white poppy' degenerate into this war of sarcasm and hurt No wonder the worlds in a bad state this illustrates it perfectly

Before I answer properly as well as I can, please remember that to talk about this topic without being accused of 'aiming' what I say at any individual is difficult but that is what I'm trying to do.

I think it's boasting when it happens repeatedly. How good works are talked about makes a difference too. If the purpose of a story seems more to be about the 'halo polishing' of the storyteller than about the need for something to be done and the need to encourage others to help as well, then I think that, if not boasting, it morphs into a kind of asking for a pat on the back from others: a "seeking approval" activism or a self-justification activism. That's how it seems to me anyhow.

Please note the word 'seems' above. The assessment of when a story or a collection of stories (the repetition part mentioned above) becomes self-congratulatory or asking for one's goodness to be confirmed by others is of course subjective as the discussion so far has shown.

Obviously there's nothing wrong with activism per se—always depending on the methods of activity used: terrorism is a kind of activism that is clearly wrong, and so was the Greenpeace trampling of an ancient and sacred site in Peru for the purposes of their own political agenda.

thatbags Do you think the OP was boastful? People often mention things they do: helping a sick friend,visiting dementia patients, supporting the bereaved, rescuing factory farm chickens etc etc. Is that being boastful?? If I say I went on the march in solidarity with refugees..am I boasting??

thatbags one of the ways of raising awareness of cancer is getting cancer survivors to tell their story are you suggesting that this shouldn't be allowed or that they are somehow "polishing their halo"?

A cancer survivor telling their story is not someone boasting about how good they are. What have halos or ostentatious goodness got to do with recovering from an illness?

You will of course say "No" but it proves the point you can't say what people should talk about, sometimes it's personal, sometimes less so.

I will say no because you are not talking about the same thing as I am, trisher. I haven't said people shouldn't tell their survival stories. I haven't even said people shouldn't boast about their own charitable work. What I've said is that I think it is distasteful to keep telling people what good things one does and impressing upon them how charitable one is. Other people apparently don't find that distasteful. That's all there is to it really.

Ana you're right, every time someone says they don't believe in fairies, one dies.

JessM I don't believe in cats either (especially when they catch the birds in my garden), dead, alive, in a box or radioactive.

Except for two, one of whom has been neutered anyway, end of story!

thatbags one of the ways of raising awareness of cancer is getting cancer survivors to tell their story are you suggesting that this shouldn't be allowed or that they are somehow "polishing their halo"? You will of course say "No" but it proves the point you can't say what people should talk about, sometimes it's personal, sometimes less so.

Up next for discussion:
1. How many angels can dance on the head of a pin, including a debate on what do you mean by "angel" and "pin"
2. Is Schrödinger's hypothetical cat dead or alive and how can you tell without opening the hypothetical box. Important to first be clear about meaning of "cat", "box", "dead" and "alive"

Fundraising, campaigning and raising awareness require people to go out and tell everyone about what you are doing.

No, raising awareness requires people to tell others about what is being done. If people want to say what they are doing personally, of course they can, but someone could have the same feelings as I do about not polishing one's own halo and still get the message across by talking about what is being done rather than who is doing it.

but to suggest that everything should be done quietly is ridiculous

Of course it is, which is probably why no-one has suggested it.

They have to believe in fairies as well, though.

I did post a "Thank you" to ga. She certainly reminded me that I used to be a lot more active in the cause of peace. As far as if one should tell everyone about the good works you do I would imagine if everyone didn't the incomes of lots of charities would fall dramatically. Fundraising, campaigning and raising awareness require people to go out and tell everyone about what you are doing. Of course there is always room for the person who donates quietly and anonymously, but to suggest that everything should be done quietly is ridiculous.
One of the things I have noticed is the increasingly militaristic tone of the world compared with when I was younger. It would be nice to see a peace movement to counter this.
Thanks for the link about the White helmets dj something really worth supporting.
Oh and enough people have to clap to save a fairy from dying.

Were you also told that if you said you believed in fairies, Tinkerbelle wouldn't die?

Or perhaps, dt, they are quietly saying Hail Marys and, naturally, not telling anyone because they were taught the Brownie method as well. I was told when a child that if enough people said enough Hail Marys then there would be peace in the world.

No, I didn't wear a white poppy (have not been out anyway) and, sadly, I don't think that me wearing one is going to make a jot of difference to any of the atrocious happenings in Syria, Yemen, elsewhere, wherever we see these dreadful pictures and despair.

All we can do is pick up a few pieces, help a few people and tinker around the edges of hell and destruction.

Sorry, I am normally a glass half full person but this is all beyond belief and seems beyond the capabilities of world powers to stop it.

As no-one has actually answered the question about whether they mark International Peace Day in the affirmative (other than dj), maybe all this 'debate' is to mask the fact that they feel guilty not to be doing anything (including myself in that, and ducking behind the sofa to hide from the flames)

I obviously used the word 'onslaugbt' unwisely Merlot .

I don't think I'd call it a debate though...at least not much about the OPS question more debate on whether it was virtue signalling or not.

Shame really because.i thought it was a simple question of what we did to observe International peace day ( want that peaceful here was it ?)

Okay, bags, you just carry on being subtle.
In the meantime someone has bombed three of the four White Helmet depots in Aleppo.
Sorry, but I'll carry on telling people to support the White Helmets.
They have just been given a share of a peace prize, and they will need the money.
It was probably Assad who bombed them, as he did not think they did anything to support peace.

www.theguardian.com/global/2016/sep/23/the-white-helmets-syria-volunteer-rescue-workers-heroes-hope-horror

I agree about there being differences between "charitable good works undertaken purely for personal kudos rather than those who do so for more altruistic /private reasons", pen (08:44:42), and about the need to spread the word about charities' work.

The distinction I'm talking about is more subtle than that: it's the difference between knowing a person is charitable and does good works because they have told you themselves and knowing a person is good/does good works because other people (such as those working for a charity that has benefited) have told you.

If what one does is in the public arena already, e.g. if a charity or several charities are organising a sponsored fund-raising event, that's a different case.

My argument is that I think it's preferable to inform people of, in this case (but the principle applies to anything) work to promote world peace, and suggest ways they might be able to join in or help if they want to, without any directly personal reference: general publicity rather than personal publicity I suppose it could be called. That is the message I got from my teachers and parents, from my school motto, and from the quote by Alexander Pope.

I don't know what is the name of the feeling I have when people publicise their own goodness but it stems from a certain reticence about self-publicising of virtue that was engendered in me during and throughout my childhood including, for instance, when I was a Brownie and was supposed to do a good turn every day. We were encouraged to notice helpful things we could do and to just do them without saying anything. I guess that idea is a very important part of my psyche.

I think I also tend to assume that people are good and are charitable unless I hear otherwise because the people I know well all are and I know that without them ever mentioning it.

It's a subtle idea and I've gathered from comments on this thread that some people don't get it (not helped by its being difficult to express), but I know some GNers get it and agree with my view on the matter because they have told me.

And thanks, grannyactivist, you've reminded me I need to buy some more white poppies. I have one for me, but I need to buy more to hand out to people who ask about it, along with the leaflets about the PPU.

The question was does anyone else mark the day.
It didn't warrant a 'you shouldn't have told us what you have done' response.

The OP asked a question though. Must threads now be policed to stop discussions turning into debates?

Oh dear. If that is "gentle teasing" I'd hate to experience genuine criticism.

Context is all, merlotgran. Said it before and I might as well say it again. If GN was a real space, with people having a wide range of conversations in rooms or coffee areas, then the way that you join and participate in those conversations would vary. You probably wouldn't barge into a group discussing what they are going to have for dinner and start berating them about the ethics of food production. Neither would you march into a room where people were planning a event to support refugees, say, and start accusing them of virtue signalling. However if it was a debate about nuclear power then everyone would know that it was a debate. It would be a different kind of interaction in which robust disagreement would be fine.
A bit of sensitivity to these differences on the part of members would be lovely, wouldn't it.

What onslaught?

Nothing more than a few disagreements/agreements.

I call that a debate.

me too Linsco56 then sat back and was kind of stunned by the onslaught !

perception is everything I guess.

Isn't it strange how people interpret things differently. I assumed grannyactivist was merely trying to raise the profile of her cause.

To inhibit good whether it is talking about it it or actioning it is wrong. Sneering "virtue signalling" says a lot about the sneerer and absolutely nothing about the recipient. Nothing graceful or pleasant about such a phrase.

We all if we have any humanity must be devastated when we see the children. We all because we are human think we know what should done to prevent such horror. We are all right and wrong.

But we really ought to ask ourselves if a child suffering from shrapnel wounds or other dreadful things or dying from starvation could read what we are saying to each other would feel? Pretty damned despairing I would have thought.