On refugees

Neither is Jack Monroe.

I wouldn't count Ken Loach as a vacuous celeb though!

What do you think about this? Lily Allen was told to get an immigrant to drive her, by a blackcab driver.

www.theguardian.com/music/2016/oct/28/lily-allen-black-cab-driver-find-immigrant-drive-you

Fortunately another blackcab driver reassured her that that was a one-off.

I don't think celebs as a group have crocodile tears.
We have no idea how much they contribute as individuals.
Celebs do at least keep things in the public domain when the government might want things kept quiet.

For example the stuff about benefits being stopped and people dying. If it wasn't for Ken Loach's film and Jack Monroe, we wouldn't have been given government figures. They've always said they don't keep those figures.

I think a lot of people who help, or donate if they are unable to help, support in any way, just do it quietly, unlike the celebs with their crocodile tears.

Heart-warming, Mamie. Good to know that there are lots of people in France who care.
There are in this country, too, it's just that it doesn't get splashed all over the media, like the opposite view.

Very interesting watching the French news last week and this week on the re-settlement of the refugees from Calais in centres all over France. Reactions of local residents are obviously mixed, but plenty of people welcoming, donating stuff and ready to help. What is particularly heart-warming is hearing the oldest residents saying, "We welcomed the refugees from the north in 1940 and we will welcome these poor people too".
At our nearest centre the local Maire and the Préfet were there to welcome the refugees.

This is an article by people who have researched the refugee crisis for over 25 years, and says that demolishing the Jungle will not work, and never has.

theconversation.com/after-the-calais-jungle-is-there-a-long-term-solution-views-from-france-and-britain-67352

This is a paragraph from that article.

'There is no obligation under international refugee law for a person to claim asylum in the first country they get to. This has simply been a mechanism introduced by the politically more powerful and richer countries of northern Europe to take full advantage of their lack of geographical proximity to the epicentres of conflict and violence.'

Not what we are led to believe.

There's an article in the i by someone who runs a housing project for unaccompanied asylum seeking young men.
She says what do we expect them to look like when they arrive in the UK? The main complaint was that they needed a shave. What are they supposed to look like, Harry Potter bouncing off the bus on his first day at Hogwarts?
They've been travelling for months, or years in some cases, sleeping rough, starving, dehydrated, little treatment for injuries, and then they end up living in the Jungle.

I was pleased and appalled yesterday when they were interviewing people living in North Devon. One woman was saying that she was pleased they were there. A man said, "We don't want those people here." He was a definite Brexiter.

I remember clearly when the refugees arrived here in 1956. Our council hosted them in several public buildings- I remember the kids arriving at school, not speaking a word or French, and terrified.

I also remember my family hosting a young man from Frejus, after the terrible Frejus dam disaster. He was 17 but looked much older - like many of the young refugees from Calais. I was just a little kid, but I adored him and his Southern French accent (ah putaing). And our family also hosted a young man from a noble Rumanian family in the early 60s. Again, about 18 and looked like Dean Martin, but better... now that was the love of my teenage years ...

Proud, really proud, that our family helped best it could- even though we were not well off at all. I just can't bear to think about my GCs ever being refugees after suffering and seeing what they have - and be treated with more disdain, hatred and worse - once they get to where they thought they would at last find some peace.

People in France are generally very unhappy about the refugees from Calais being taken to other places - and most feel that the UK is using the Convention to wash their hands off the problem, by saying 'refugees should apply where they first arrive'. They feel it is a little rich to say that, when, geographically, the UK is the hardest to reach. They certainly feel that the UK borders should not longer be allowed to be on French soil and should move to Dover asap, and at least as soon as article 50 is called. And they would be happy to chip in to pay the cost of the ferry and send them all to UK. I'm afraid you can call it puerile, vindictive, pathetic- but I can't blame them for feeling angry with the UK. Because what is happening in the UK affects, and will affec, the whole of the EU- not just the UK

Just like what is happening with the election in America will impact ont he whole of the world, not just the US.

And in the meantime, back at the ranch where I live - the Swiss Gvt has just purchased a big sports centre just above us, to house a significant number for those refugees (and there is another well-established one just down the road). We still don't know if it will house families, or groups of young men, or ... we don't know. It is right in the middle of the countryside, with NOTHING at all around it bar trees and lovely mountains- the nearest (tiny) village is about 4 miles away, no public transport. But it is so close to the French border that they will be able to walk to FRance in minutes. Soon there will be 6ft + of snow up there. ??? Go figure. I shall do my best to help, perhaps teach FRench, do cooking and crafts, etc- as I know many of my neighbours will NOT make them feel welcome, that is for sure. And all say, if they want to go to UK, let them- will buy the ferry tickets!

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

I've often thought that the battle in Syria reminded me of 1984. This article certainly confirms it in my mind.

theconversation.com/how-to-understand-syrias-proxy-war-and-whos-fighting-for-whom-65685

The middle east is the area that we are all fighting over, and we get propaganda about who is fighting whom, and who is winning.
We are Airstrip one; even worse, we send our drones and weapons to the US to be used from there.

World leaders met in New York and decided on a plan to get one million more refugee children in education.

www.one.org/international/blog/6-key-moments-in-the-fight-for-educationforrefugees/

I'd like to think that if I had fled the horror that is part of Syria and other countries in fear of my life, risked drowning in the Aegean Sea, travelled 2,000+ miles to Calais, plus the money this has cost, I think I would feel very safe and secure in a rural French village.

Our local paper today - The Gers must find places for 30 refugees from the Calais camp.
The Gers is a small department, mostly rural. Some refugees have already been placed in an isolated village, but aren't happy. They want to be in towns and cities because that's the environment they come from.

The cradle of civilisation

Some good news for some children in Calais.

www.unhcr.org/uk/news/stories/2016/9/57e9142b4/unaccompanied-children-calais-cultivate-world-home.html

Where do you suggest, then?

When you think about it, part of Syria was the original Mesopotamia, wasn't it, the fertile lands between the two rivers, which is probably why they want to go back.

It might be better than herding them into housing which nobody wants in areas with few jobs and being discriminated against by the locals. I can't see the conflict in Syria being over any time soon.

The other thing is that most of them say they want to go back to Syria when the war is over.

But you are still talking about separating them from the rest of society just because they are dispossessed.
I do not think they will want that.

DJ The refugees escaping from Syria are not coming from a subsistence economy. Many are highly educated professional people, others skilled tradesmen, small business owners, others shop, restaurant, factory workers - the same range of occupations as we have in this country.

Now I have read Jamila's link containing this quote 'one of the most inhospitable regions of the world, where the summer temperature rises to more than 50 degrees in the shade and in winter it is freezing cold. Thanks to the solid organization and the large feeling of solidarity, the Saharawi people were able to build an organized society in this desert, which is exactly what I had in mind - utilising unproductive land, which no one else wants, to provide a home and opportunities for those forced to leave their homeland. A place where they can retain their culture, without overpowering others, can work with room to expand and grow.

Just think of all the places with NEW in their names - New York, New Zealand, Nova Scotia, New England, the list is endless. All of these were established and grown by immigrants and refugees as the population of the world expanded and through famine, wars, poverty, religious differences, brave people were forced to leave homes and seek opportunities elsewhere. I am not advocating herding people into these newly viable areas, just suggesting that with a little philanthropic investment, such places could offer a fure and hope to the dispossessed.

I think the refugee crisis now is far worse than in centuries past, though, Granny23.

The land that is not lived on now is usually land unfit for agriculture.

One of the problems with what you suggest is that you are expecting people to go from a subsistence community to using high tech but missing out the manufacturing in between.
Action Aid does the intermediate technology using skills and materials the people already have. You are suggesting moving the people from where they know to somewhere completely alien to their culture.
I know that's what refugees do, but they do it with some decision of their own.

Have you looked at Jamila's link to the oldest refugee camp?