Theresa May Mark 2

It's not really your sort of language, is it?

And yes, I do have quite a good memory, thank you.

You're going to be told off by niggly soon.

Doubt it.

Hardly dj! I'm constantly astounded at how disrespectful you are to others on and off this forum, particularly ab, which at times amounts to bullying and is really horrid. Surely you can make your views clear without resorting to unpleasantness? Others manage to, why not you?

niggly, there's an awful lot of disrespect and unpleasantness on these threads, it's not all down to one person. In fact, dj isn't bad at all compared to some. I thought it was all part and parcel of having people from all parts of the political spectrum on here, all trying to drag everyone else over to their side of the fence. Oh, and before you ask who I might be talking about, I'm not going to name and shame, other than myself since I've posted a couple of not so pleasant remarks - and got flamed for them!

On and off this forum?
Do you know me in real life, niggly?

News and Politics is one forum, there are many others, such as Chat and Health.

Surely you knew that?

i cannot make head nor tail of this thread. I looked at it believing that it would be about the procedure for leaving the EU. But its a thread for a catch-all mega-Grannygrumble punctuated by a lot of bitching and point scoring or silly digression. One thing is clear, effective debating was never on your school curriculum or you would be able to confine yourselves to succinctly addressing the issue raised in the thread.
I'll get my coat.

As even government ministers are hiding from the issue raised, I think you should be able to give us some leeway, specki.
On the other hand, you could explain it yourself, succinctly, of course.....
If you can't, we'll understand.
Do I take it that debating was on your school curriculum?

'Catch all mega granny grumbling' yup, that just about sums it up.

Stop grumbling and explain, then, roses.
I wait for enlightenment.

People who are made redundant are usually entitled, after a period of time, to payment of interest on their mortgage loans. Their homes are a very valuable asset, not because they have worked harder or been more frugal than people who rent, but because there is a shortage of housing, from which they have benefited but which has adversely affected renters.

Ana You say: "but they [homeowners] aren't taking up social housing and are probably paying a lot for council tax, heating and maintenance of those homes. No free repairs and redecoration for them!" As I've said before, people in private rented accommodation are legally entitled to have internal and external repairs carried out by their landlord. In the same way, because a council property belongs to the council, it is the council's responsibility to maintain it. If you carry out repairs and redecorations to the home you own, you bear the cost but you are also maintaining, and often increasing, the value of that home.

Also, most people pay council tax and those that are exempt include homeowners too. And, of course, council house tenants have have to pay for their water and energy bills just like anyone else.

I don't agree with the no spare room rule - whether it be applied in the case of pensioners or families. However, I believe the Conservative government exempted pensioners for political reasons - not because they were being especially kind-hearted.

No dj, mercifully I don't know you in real life. Experience of your attitude on this thread both to me and to other people is more than enough!
I totally agree that the bedroom tax is iniquitous, and I sincerely hope that the new administration will have a serious re think.

No durhamjen I can't explain it, which is precisely why I opened the thread, hoping for enlightenment!
I dont intend to be drawn into this thread but just to answer your question - yes my good old fashioned grammar school did have a debating society, of which I was a member, and we were taught to look for arguments and put them forward succinctly but politely.

Eloethan, we were talking about pensioners on low incomes not having to pay council tax - I think daphnedill mentioned it initially.

Someone asked how many of us lived in 'under-occupied' houses which prompted my response about there being no free maintenance as there is for social housing tenants.

Of course it's up to owner occupiers to maintain their own properties, but if they're pensioners on low incomes it must be very difficult. There's a shortgage of smaller private properties in a lot of areas so it's not always a simple matter of downsizing.

I think there are some wires being crossed here.

Firstly, pensioners will not be thrown out of their former family homes. The new rules will only apply to tenancies agreed after April 2016. Anybody who has been in a council house since before April will not be affected. Pensioners will not have to downsize and, certainly in my area, there are quite generous financial incentives for them to do so. We have unoccupied housing for the elderly, because pensioners don't want to move and who can blame them when they can stay in a family home with all costs paid?

Secondly, the rules for housing benefit are being changed completely. Everybody will now be subject to the same rules as all working age people and pensioners in private rentals.

This means that their housing benefit will be capped at the maximum available for the size of the household, using the Local Housing Allowance.

For example (to use my own area, because it's the one I know best), LHA for a single person is set at £546.22 per month. A private rental for a one bed flat/house would typically cost at least £700 per month, so the tenant has to find the rest from somewhere - not easy for a working age person on £73pw JSA and only slightly easier for a pensioner on £155pw.

I've just checked again on the council's letting website and there are one and two bed flats and bungalows available. A one bed flat is available for £82pw and a two bed bungalow (designated as housing for the elderly) for £96pw. A pensioner could rent the two bed bungalow and still receive full housing benefit, because the rent would be below the £542.22pm cap.

Very few pensioners will be affected by the new rules, because anybody who is allocated council housing after April 2016 would not be allocated accommodation which is too big. The ones who might be affected are those now in late middle age with children. When the children move out, their LHA cap will go down. In many cases their rent will still be below the cap. In which case, they could still afford to stay in the accommodation. If not, they will have taken on tenancies, knowing that they might not be permanent.

@Eloethan

Mortgage interest relief for the unemployed has been stopped. It is now provided as a loan, which has to be paid back as soon as the recipient finds work.

In any case, it was only ever paid for the interest, not for capital repayments. For anybody at the end of a mortgage, when most of the repayment is capital, it hardly helps at all. That's how I lost my home.

Examples of LHA caps in other parts of the country.

In parts of the North of England the pensioner in a two bed social rent property can have a back-door LHA maxima bedroom tax as the 1 bed LHA rate in some areas does not cover a 2 bed social rent level.
Similarly the social tenant who is not under occupying a 2 bed property will have their HB cut as the 2 bed LHA rate is lower than a 2 bed social rent level.
In Wales the 2 bed LHA rate in Blaenau Gwent is just £76 pw and if a social rent 2 bed rate is lower than this then the fully occupied tenant will face a housing benefit cut (pensioner or not) and again we see just how far this LHA maxima policy extends. The 3 bed LHA rate is £86 in Blaenau too and the same may happen there to a fully occupied tenant!
In only 5 Welsh areas is the 1 bed LHA rate over £90 per week and in 5 areas the 2 bed LHA rate is £90 or less so the LHA maxima could impact hugely in Wales and to pensioners and to those who are NOT under occupying

Pensioners with current tenancies won't be affected.

Rather than focusing on pensioners, there should be an enquiry into LHAs. The fact is that council tenants are still getting a good deal compared with private tenants. The LHA has been frozen. In my are it always was ridiculous, because the LHA area includes most of North Cambridgeshire, where rents are low.

How much are rents (private or social) in Blaenau?

There are 50+ (I lost count) 3 bed houses (housing association) for less than £90pw in Blaenau and at least 10 two bed homes for £75pw or less, so there is no shortage of housing which the LHA would cover.

People who are made redundant are usually entitled, after a period of time, to payment of interest on their mortgage loans
Is that still the case Eloethan? I thought it had been abolished many years ago.

Just looked it up, it is payable after 39 weeks on benefits, by which time you could have lost your house and attempt to be re-housed in apparently non-existent social housing.
It is probably better and cheaper for the Government to pay this than re-housing a family and paying housing benefit to them.

Thank you for that explanation daphnedil which makes everything clear and some posts redundant

I feel a hot hairdrier blowing across the thread

The Welsh Assembly still provides a 'Mortgage Rescue Scheme', which has been abolished in England.

Private rentals in Blaneau Gwent are available from about £300 - £400 pcm.

Why, instead of saying private rents are now ridiculously high, do we say that social housing rents are too low? The introduction of Housing Benefit (instead of building council houses) has, I think, created a system whereby landlords are charging far more than they could have done if this benefit did not exist.

We need to build more affordable social housing. Private rental rates are now so high that renters are barely able to afford essentials like food, heating and transport. This is not the fault of social tenants - it's the failure of governments to recognise that while they allow the social housing sector to be depleted, private landlords can demand extortionate rents and, unless rent controls are brought in, this will continue to have an adverse effect on families - and not just low paid families.

I agree that we need to build more social housing - of course we do. Not only would it provide housing, but it would provide work.

The trouble is that housing in the UK is a classic case of market failure, which is why the state needs to intervene. The market dictates rents and landlords will get what they can. I don't agree that housing benefit is pushing up rents for most housing, because there are plenty of potential tenants who will pay. The real problem is a supply one, which is why rent caps won't work.

The situation is likely to get worse, because the fall in sterling is pushing up opportunities for foreign investment.

Nobody is talking about 'fault', but we have a situation where taxpayers are paying for people to live in accommodation which is too big for their needs, while those who need family-sized accommodation are forced to rent privately or with friends/relatives and are effectively homeless. It's an ineffecient use of public resources and not fair.

The petition was about pensioners in social housing. Ironically, they're the one group which is still protected. The real poverty is being experienced by people of working age on low incomes or unemployed, but nobody seems to care much about them.

To hell with the NHS as well, then. Try not to become ill over the winter.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/oct/14/no-extra-money-for-nhs-theresa-may-tells-health-chief

Theresa May says the NHS should be treated like the Home Office or the MoD. They had cuts and didn't whinge about it!