Theresa May Mark 2

Thank you for that explanation daphnedil which makes everything clear and some posts redundant

I feel a hot hairdrier blowing across the thread

People who are made redundant are usually entitled, after a period of time, to payment of interest on their mortgage loans
Is that still the case Eloethan? I thought it had been abolished many years ago.

Just looked it up, it is payable after 39 weeks on benefits, by which time you could have lost your house and attempt to be re-housed in apparently non-existent social housing.
It is probably better and cheaper for the Government to pay this than re-housing a family and paying housing benefit to them.

Pensioners with current tenancies won't be affected.

Rather than focusing on pensioners, there should be an enquiry into LHAs. The fact is that council tenants are still getting a good deal compared with private tenants. The LHA has been frozen. In my are it always was ridiculous, because the LHA area includes most of North Cambridgeshire, where rents are low.

How much are rents (private or social) in Blaenau?

There are 50+ (I lost count) 3 bed houses (housing association) for less than £90pw in Blaenau and at least 10 two bed homes for £75pw or less, so there is no shortage of housing which the LHA would cover.

Examples of LHA caps in other parts of the country.

In parts of the North of England the pensioner in a two bed social rent property can have a back-door LHA maxima bedroom tax as the 1 bed LHA rate in some areas does not cover a 2 bed social rent level.
Similarly the social tenant who is not under occupying a 2 bed property will have their HB cut as the 2 bed LHA rate is lower than a 2 bed social rent level.
In Wales the 2 bed LHA rate in Blaenau Gwent is just £76 pw and if a social rent 2 bed rate is lower than this then the fully occupied tenant will face a housing benefit cut (pensioner or not) and again we see just how far this LHA maxima policy extends. The 3 bed LHA rate is £86 in Blaenau too and the same may happen there to a fully occupied tenant!
In only 5 Welsh areas is the 1 bed LHA rate over £90 per week and in 5 areas the 2 bed LHA rate is £90 or less so the LHA maxima could impact hugely in Wales and to pensioners and to those who are NOT under occupying

@Eloethan

Mortgage interest relief for the unemployed has been stopped. It is now provided as a loan, which has to be paid back as soon as the recipient finds work.

In any case, it was only ever paid for the interest, not for capital repayments. For anybody at the end of a mortgage, when most of the repayment is capital, it hardly helps at all. That's how I lost my home.

I think there are some wires being crossed here.

Firstly, pensioners will not be thrown out of their former family homes. The new rules will only apply to tenancies agreed after April 2016. Anybody who has been in a council house since before April will not be affected. Pensioners will not have to downsize and, certainly in my area, there are quite generous financial incentives for them to do so. We have unoccupied housing for the elderly, because pensioners don't want to move and who can blame them when they can stay in a family home with all costs paid?

Secondly, the rules for housing benefit are being changed completely. Everybody will now be subject to the same rules as all working age people and pensioners in private rentals.

This means that their housing benefit will be capped at the maximum available for the size of the household, using the Local Housing Allowance.

For example (to use my own area, because it's the one I know best), LHA for a single person is set at £546.22 per month. A private rental for a one bed flat/house would typically cost at least £700 per month, so the tenant has to find the rest from somewhere - not easy for a working age person on £73pw JSA and only slightly easier for a pensioner on £155pw.

I've just checked again on the council's letting website and there are one and two bed flats and bungalows available. A one bed flat is available for £82pw and a two bed bungalow (designated as housing for the elderly) for £96pw. A pensioner could rent the two bed bungalow and still receive full housing benefit, because the rent would be below the £542.22pm cap.

Very few pensioners will be affected by the new rules, because anybody who is allocated council housing after April 2016 would not be allocated accommodation which is too big. The ones who might be affected are those now in late middle age with children. When the children move out, their LHA cap will go down. In many cases their rent will still be below the cap. In which case, they could still afford to stay in the accommodation. If not, they will have taken on tenancies, knowing that they might not be permanent.

Eloethan, we were talking about pensioners on low incomes not having to pay council tax - I think daphnedill mentioned it initially.

Someone asked how many of us lived in 'under-occupied' houses which prompted my response about there being no free maintenance as there is for social housing tenants.

Of course it's up to owner occupiers to maintain their own properties, but if they're pensioners on low incomes it must be very difficult. There's a shortgage of smaller private properties in a lot of areas so it's not always a simple matter of downsizing.

No durhamjen I can't explain it, which is precisely why I opened the thread, hoping for enlightenment!
I dont intend to be drawn into this thread but just to answer your question - yes my good old fashioned grammar school did have a debating society, of which I was a member, and we were taught to look for arguments and put them forward succinctly but politely.

No dj, mercifully I don't know you in real life. Experience of your attitude on this thread both to me and to other people is more than enough!
I totally agree that the bedroom tax is iniquitous, and I sincerely hope that the new administration will have a serious re think.

People who are made redundant are usually entitled, after a period of time, to payment of interest on their mortgage loans. Their homes are a very valuable asset, not because they have worked harder or been more frugal than people who rent, but because there is a shortage of housing, from which they have benefited but which has adversely affected renters.

Ana You say: "but they [homeowners] aren't taking up social housing and are probably paying a lot for council tax, heating and maintenance of those homes. No free repairs and redecoration for them!" As I've said before, people in private rented accommodation are legally entitled to have internal and external repairs carried out by their landlord. In the same way, because a council property belongs to the council, it is the council's responsibility to maintain it. If you carry out repairs and redecorations to the home you own, you bear the cost but you are also maintaining, and often increasing, the value of that home.

Also, most people pay council tax and those that are exempt include homeowners too. And, of course, council house tenants have have to pay for their water and energy bills just like anyone else.

I don't agree with the no spare room rule - whether it be applied in the case of pensioners or families. However, I believe the Conservative government exempted pensioners for political reasons - not because they were being especially kind-hearted.

Stop grumbling and explain, then, roses.
I wait for enlightenment.

'Catch all mega granny grumbling' yup, that just about sums it up.

As even government ministers are hiding from the issue raised, I think you should be able to give us some leeway, specki.
On the other hand, you could explain it yourself, succinctly, of course.....
If you can't, we'll understand.
Do I take it that debating was on your school curriculum?

i cannot make head nor tail of this thread. I looked at it believing that it would be about the procedure for leaving the EU. But its a thread for a catch-all mega-Grannygrumble punctuated by a lot of bitching and point scoring or silly digression. One thing is clear, effective debating was never on your school curriculum or you would be able to confine yourselves to succinctly addressing the issue raised in the thread.
I'll get my coat.

News and Politics is one forum, there are many others, such as Chat and Health.

Surely you knew that?

On and off this forum?
Do you know me in real life, niggly?

niggly, there's an awful lot of disrespect and unpleasantness on these threads, it's not all down to one person. In fact, dj isn't bad at all compared to some. I thought it was all part and parcel of having people from all parts of the political spectrum on here, all trying to drag everyone else over to their side of the fence. Oh, and before you ask who I might be talking about, I'm not going to name and shame, other than myself since I've posted a couple of not so pleasant remarks - and got flamed for them!

Hardly dj! I'm constantly astounded at how disrespectful you are to others on and off this forum, particularly ab, which at times amounts to bullying and is really horrid. Surely you can make your views clear without resorting to unpleasantness? Others manage to, why not you?

Doubt it.

You're going to be told off by niggly soon.

It's not really your sort of language, is it?

And yes, I do have quite a good memory, thank you.

Really? What an amazing memory you have, Ana.

Well, there were certainly some Corbyn supporters getting all het up because posters were making comments about his vest-wearing. And I don't recall you telling them to 'lighten up' durhamjen.

Never. I bet you can't find one instance. Couldn't care less what anyone wears, and I can't be bothered to complain when someone else does.
I'm not saying anything about the clothes on here, just the fact that someone treats those that do as if they are recalcitrant kids, including you, Ana.

How many times have you castigated posters for mentioning Corbyn's vests attire, durhamjen?