Theresa May Mark 2

I agree, daphne. That's what I mean by a race to the bottom.
My parents had paid off their mortgage. They sold a seven bedroomed house for £8,000. That didn't last long with the rent tripling.

There weren't any in the area they wanted to live in. The HA bought up old houses and did them up. To get a two bedroomed flat they would have had to move to a very ropy council estate on the outskirts of the city instead of staying near their friends and family.
They had to move for health reasons. My mother had had a tracheotomy tube fitted, and found difficulty looking after a four storey victorian house.
As I said, people should be allowed to move when they want to, not be forced to find somewhere smaller because no council houses have been built to accommodate families who need them.

I should have been allowed my dignity too and not have had my house repossessed. As It is, I'm force to pay a rent I can't afford and to pay council tax towards people with a higher disposbale income than I have to live in better property than I can afford. Sorry, that's not fair. I think your sympathy is displaced and there are many people who are in the same situation as I am.

Well presumably they agreed to rent the one-bedroomed flat. Why didn't they ask for a two-bedroomed flat if they knew they'd want people to stay? Not the same situation at all.

The answer is more council housing, not penalising older people. Older people should be allowed dignity in their last years. They will move out soon enough. Nobody should be forced to move. The spare room subsidy has ridiculous criteria.
Sorry for your situation. The same thing happened to my parents, not because they were forced out, but having lived in a house that was too big for them, 7 bedrooms, they sold it to a HA, who rented them a one bedroomed flat. Too small for them to have anyone to stay except sleeping on a bed settee in the lounge.
The rent was affordable to start with, but it tripled in the ten years they were there.

Because there are older people rattling around in three or four bedroom houses, which are being paid for by people much poorer than the occupant(s), while families in need of that housing are overcrowded. Why should they be subsidised for under-occupancy? I'm afraid I think this kind of thing gives socialism a bad name.

daphnedill I am sorry you are in such a sad situation but I really don't understand why the two things cannot be thought of as equally important. More appropriate social housing, yes.
Bedroom tax for the poorest in social housing-No!

@dj

Yes, living in rented accommodation is horrible, especially if you've been an owner-occupier for 30 years. I'm at the whim of my landlord, who could evict me with two months' notice.

@dj

I was forced out of my family home after struggling to pay a mortgage for years. I'm now being 'penalised' for that because my home was repossessed, but I still had equity (savings). I'm expected to live on that equity until it's all gone.

I've applied for social housing, but I won't get a three bedroom house. I shall be grateful for a roof over my head for the rest of my life.

I don't think it's a race to the bottom and I appreciate it's different in some areas. However, there are people living in social housing which is too big for their needs. Fine if they can afford it, but I'm one of the poorest 10% and I'm paying for it. Sorry, but I don't think it's unfair to expect them to downsize, as I (and many others) have had to do. They're getting a much better deal than people in private rented accommodation, even with the 'bedroom tax'.

I'm all for routing out unfairness (and there's certainly plenty of it), but I don't think it's unfair to expect people to pay. They're lucky to have social housing and I don't think that people poorer than they are should pay, especially when there are other families who are overcrowded.

A single pensioner with £155.60 without housing costs is not poor and is much better off than many people of working age, especially as Housing Benefit is a passport to other benefits.

Why is it always a race to the bottom for those who live in social housing?
Why can there be no dignity for those who have brought up a family in a house? Why can they not just move when they want to and if there is something suitable available?

Answer came there none...(apart from yet another link, of course)

speye.wordpress.com/2015/12/22/pensioners-back-door-bedroom-tax-is-tory-policy/

Who is this 'we' durhamjen? For a start, daphnedill has said she lives in rented accommodation, and so do many other members of GN.

speye.wordpress.com/2016/10/11/138547-benefit-households-to-be-refused-social-housing-per-year/

This isn't about pensioners.

The Labour party wants rid of the spare room tax as it's a penalty on poverty.

I do not think any pensioner, single or couple, should be forced out of the family home if they do not want to go.
When the spare room tax came in, it forced people who had lived in the same house for the whole of their married lives to move to somewhere smaller.

Because we are lucky enough to own our own homes, it does not affect us. However, I would hate to have to move to a one-bedroomed place, and not be able to have anyone to stay if I lived in rented accommodation. It would make me feel worthless, being moved around at the whim of the government.

I can't speak for all areas, but I know the waiting list for LA bungalows in my area is shorter than it is for 'family homes'. My savings are just about to dip below the level for going on the list, so I've started the process. The catch is that I have to stay living in this area while I'm waiting and I'm not sure I can afford it.

Most pensioners here either live in owner-occupied housing or are hanging on to their council houses. The 'bedroom tax' might make a difference, but the council housing officer didn't seem to think it would. If I were receiving pension credit and housing benefit, I would not pay less in a one bed house than a single pensioner in a three bed house. I don't think that's very fair.

Pensioner bungalows are considered to be 'hard to let properties' here. I know one family of four, who were temporarily housed in a one-bedroom bungalow when their business went bankrupt and they lost their home. They were there for at least a year, but I've lost contact now and don't know what's happened to them.

Pension Credit makes up the income of single pensioners to £155.60pw. I wouldn't mind having that after housing costs. I wouldn't even mind paying £14pw for an extra bedroom.

I would happily sign anything to support the building of more housing suitable for pensioners.
Me too, both private and HA or council.

Remembering MIL in her unsuitable privately rented house and how worried and nervous we were about her still makes me wish we had persuaded her just a bit more to move to a nice, warm LA bungalow (available at the time) - I'm sure she would have been safer, warmer and happier there.
There is an absolute dearth of private homes suitable for older people here and, although there are some very nice LA bungalows, I am not sure what the waiting list it.

....and I agree too!

And I find myself in the rare position of agreeing absolutely with you, daphnedill.

I don't wish to punish or penalise pensioners in social housing either, but can't see why they should get special treatment as regards the 'bedroom tax'.

No, I'm not, trisher, and I do mention it every time the council sends out survey forms. However, I'm not happy that I'm 61 years old (so not a pensioner) and having to pay £825 per month rent and full council tax (minus the 25% single occupancy). My income is less than £825pm, so I have to use savings to pay for my rent (for the moment until they run out). Much of the council tax I pay goes towards supporting social care, which I won't actually receive.

I can't claim any benefits, but if I did, I would receive JSA (?£73pw). I would receive £546 in housing benefit because I rent privately, so would have to find £279 a month from somewhere plus £20 per month council tax - out of £73pw .

Pensioner social housing tenants, if they receive pension credit, receive about double what I would plus housing and council tax for free. 'Bedroom tax' is £14pw for one extra bedroom, which is quite a good deal to have all maintenance done.

But in the absence of any such housing you are quite happy that pensioners should be punished for this. It isn't their fault that they are inhabiting properties that are too big for them, no doubt a substantial number would like a smaller more accessible property, but as you have said there aren't any.

I was going to sign the petition, but thought I'd find out the details and, I'm sorry to say, I'm not going to sign.

The government needs to get a grip of the housing situation, but keeping pensioners in under-occupied social housing is not the way.

I looked up the details for my own district.

47.8% of social housing is under-occupied. About half of the under-occupiers have one spare bedroom. The other half have two or more spare bedrooms.

Of the under-occupiers, 35% are pensioners (singles or couples) and 39% are 'empty nesters' (working age people with no children at home).

Not all of the above are in receipt of housing benefit, but some are. In some cases, pensioners will be receiving housing benefit to live in three or bedroom houses. They are also exempt from paying Council Tax.

Meanwhile, there are over 1,000 people (mainly families) on the council housing list. Nearly a half of families are living in inadequate housing, ie they don't have enough bedrooms.

Tenants in private accommodation are restricted in the amount of housing benefit they receive and, in this area, the LHA rate is way below the actual rents, so they are already paying towards rents out of benefits, if they claim them.

My area isn't the worst, although some areas, especially big towns and cities, which have different problems, have less under-occupation.

The need for new social and affordable housing could be reduced considerably, if under-occupiers could be persuaded to move. Of course, this means investing in suitable one bedroom, ground floor housing (bungalows). Private developers won't do it, because they can't make a profit, so the government (via councils) has to take the initiative. I would happily sign anything to support the building of more housing suitable for pensioners.

It doesn't seem so long ago that there was a lot of stuff being promoted about providing services so pensioners could stay in their own homes! Only the rich ones naturally, the poor ones can move or live in poverty.

Nearly 50,000 now. Good to know that some people care about poorer pensioners in rented accommodation.