Foreigners

www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/james-obrien/james-amber-rudds-speech-echoes-mein-kampf/

This was mentioned earlier.

What countries are they working in?

You say you have children working in other countries. Presumably in order to secure work, they had to compete with citizens of those countries to obtain a job. Either that, or they applied for jobs that are difficult to fill because those jobs are not attractive to the citizens of those countries

No to either. They have skills which the countries could not fill.

obieone You commented "another person should not expect to come in and grab whatever they fancy".

You say you have children working in other countries. Presumably in order to secure work, they had to compete with citizens of those countries to obtain a job. Either that, or they applied for jobs that are difficult to fill because those jobs are not attractive to the citizens of those countries. That is probably fair enough if they have not obtained citizenship of those countries, but if they are my understanding is that they should have exactly the same access to jobs and services as any other citizen.

Peaseblossom I too was born in London - Clapham to be precise and have lived in several areas in and around London and in other parts of England. My home for the last 27 years has been East London and I think you paint a very negative picture of it. My neighbours include Peruvian, Scottish, Jamaican, Rumanian, Irish, Pakistani, English, Granadian, Chinese, Polish, Mauritian and many other nationalities. We all get along pretty well and I would far rather live in a neighbourhood that is reasonably accepting of difference than the sort of narrow-minded, intolerant world of those who fear and resent anyone who is different from themselves.

The original post is OTT and scaremongering in its tone.

Some firms are getting away with paying migrant workers less which is a scandal and they should not be allowed to get away with it; it is not fair either on unemployed British jobseekers or on migrant workers who may be forced to live in less than ideal conditions.

A person who is 3rd generation Asian British was presumably born here as were their parents and grandparents so why would they be asked to fill in a form, likewise the steel band conductor? My friend is German, been here since the 1950s, retired - are you saying she will have to fill in a form?

I should think it will be to assess how many migrant workers we need in future, how schools need to allow for and provide for pupils who do not speak English as their 1st language, how much more in the way of resources we need to provide to the NHS - none of which have been addressed properly by successive governments.

Before a government decides to send 'foreigners' packing because 'British' people should have the jobs that the 'foreigners' do, they must ensure that enough 'British' people would be willing to undertake the job positions that would then need to be filled.
There have been documentaries on TV illustrating the fact that some employers have no choice but to look for immigrants to fill some jobs. Sometimes those in receipt of benefits are reluctant to give them up to go to work, because, if it doesn't work out, there can, apparently, be difficulties getting said benefits re-instated. For others, wages are lower than benefits, so little incentive here to give them up to work. On the other hand, perhaps some people don't want to work if there are easier options. Whatever, perhaps the government should consider these factors.

Well, that's fine, smileless, but you can't use the Australian situation to justify what's happening in the UK.

Once a person has citizenship, I don't see that the place of birth is relevant. Although they're obviously not up-to-date, we do already have rough figures from the census, which is done every ten years. I suppose it might be relevant for medical records, especially if somebody has been born in a country where certain diseases are endemic, but that's about it.

Yes, it is illegal, DD prefers not to employ young local born Australians, from experience she has found them very unreliable but is not allowed to because it would be discrimination - and it works both ways.

That doesn't surprise me at all daphnedill. Fortunately, he's pretty laid back about life in general and seems to have got used too not knowing from one term to the next if he's still got a job.

So far so good, he's never been out of work. Of course knowing he's being discriminated against is one thing, proving it is another thing entirely.

Last paragraph no idea what you mean by that, unless you are accusing me of prejudice in which case that is nasty bluecat and probably reportable if I could be bothered but I'm not.
Don't read comments online apart from on here.

Smileless I think, unless your son has been told specifically that he did not get a job because he was not 'Australian born' then he is probably coming up against bullish Australian prejudice, which is ironic, isn't it, as modern Australia was founded on immigration!
DD is freelance, she just laughs if she is called a 'bloody Pom' - people are surprised when she turns up because she does not have a British name.

Stay safe!

I've just checked and discrimination against him is illegal.

I agree daphnedil and I don't know if what DS has experienced is 'enshrined in Aus. law' but it's been his experience for the last 3 years.

My reference to swivel-eyed loons was a joking echo of the comments made, apparently by one of David Cameron's closest allies, to the more extreme Tory activists. If you read the comments sections of the Mail online, they're actually much worse than that. "Hateful" is the word that springs to mind. Not the average Mail reader, of course - just the ones that see evil foreigners lurking in every corner.

Also, I thought that the "some of our best friends are Asians" line had long ago been discredited as a justification for prejudice. It isn't a conundrum at all. It's an excuse.

Sorry, but if he has citizenship, I don't see that place of birth should be an issue.

DS and d.i.l. had the opportunity to go to Aus. with d.i.l.'s company durhamjen. Sorry it's taken so long to answer your question, we are in Florida so are 5 hours behind the UK.

We're rather preoccupied with hurricane Mathew; not sure if when it gets to us, it will still be hurricane force of more like a tropical storm.

I referred to DS's situation in Aus. as it isn't unusual for priority to be given to those 'born and bred' in certain countries to be given priority.

Some may find it unpalatable for this to be introduced to the UK but IMO for the OP to refer to "yellow stars being sewn onto clothing' is very OTT.

Jalima sounds like you live in same part of West Country as me when you talk about "grockles" made me laugh as I'm originally from Yorkshire - up there they say you have to live in a place for 20 years before you're accepted as a "local"

I have no issue with hard working "foreigners" but know many people see an "Asian" or Pole & assume they have just come here when in reality many are born here & some are 3rd Generation British (no bias re above just examples).

My late DHs Parents came here in 1939 from Austria fleeing the Nazis. DH was born here. Where do we draw the lines?

It is the way remarks are reported and commented on in thecpress that stirs up hatred etc

My understanding was that once we are out of Europe, we can decide who to let in. If the criteria includes having a job, we need to look into it more. For example, why pay an Eastern European to pick vegetables, make sandwiches etc and then pay a perfectly capable British citizen to sit on his/her backside and do nothing? Wages are only part of the cost of immigration, there is also housing, education, health etc all of which are under pressure. Skilled workers filling a gap are one thing, unskilled are another, unless and until we have full employment in this country. Asylum seekers etc are a separate issue.
As Norman Tebbit (I think it was him) said, to our own unemployed, get on your bike - but if they do they will now find loads of people who got on an incoming coach/boat ahead of them.

I think that May and Rudd are simply playing to the gallery and it will actually be quietly dropped. Business thinks it is a ridiculous unworkable idea, as do many in parliament on the governments side. May has always to consider her majority, and whatever the rhetoric over the past week, the Tories are the party for business - its revenue is dependent on it.

My DH and DS keep pointing out that our royal family are actually German and for centuries before them, we had French kings and queens. In fact, as historians they have double-checked and proved, at least to their own satisfaction, that there has never been an "English" monarch at least since the Norman Conquest, and probably earlier.

I agree with you Bluecat. Brexit has legitimised bigotry in our country. The views must have been quietly held previously, but remained private because they were socially unacceptable. Now bigoted views are openly celebrated. I don't recognise this previously tolerant Britain any longer. We seem to be reverting to the type of views that were around in the '60s and early 70s becoming acceptable again. A time when there were signs in Guest Houses, Cafes etc, which read 'No Dogs, No Blacks, No Irish'.

I actually do think it's reasonable to give a UK Citizen, sorry Subject (don't get me started on the expensive nonsense of a Monarch) the job, over a Foreign National, if both are equally qualified, but I do think it's bigoted to say that Citizen must be British born. If a person is a British Citizen, they are British.

Above for Granny 23.

Just what my daughter said to me yesterday.

The only foreigner causing inflation is Mark Carney. The Bank of England is trying to prevent deflation, which is why interest rates are low. At the moment, inflation is too low for a healthy economy. Inflation is needed to encourage spending to keep the economy growing and provide jobs, which in turn produce tax for the government. Deflation is bad for the economy, because people hang on to their money in the hope that prices will drop and can tip a country into recession.

All this may cause inflation, hence the interest rate has been reduced again

@Jalima

Exactly! Smileless said her son had been overlooked for permanent jobs, because he wasn't born in Australia, despite now being an Australian citizen. I know zilch about Australian law, but that sounds highly illegal. Others then jumped in and said people born in a country should have priority over foreign-born citizens (I mean citizens in the legal sense, not just somebody living in a country).