Brexit and power to the people

Maybe you should try living there before you make sweeping comments. I lived there for 13 years and would go back in a flash! I never met more truer and loyal Brits, or friendlier people than you will find in Gibraltar!

On last night's QT:

Labour MP Lisa Nandy told Question Time: "Britain is leaving the EU and whether or not Parliament has to vote to trigger Article 50, this will happen because, in reality, there are no more than a handful of parliamentarians who would seek to block that decision."

In fact, it was just a waste of time and money.

I can be 'not bothered' if I want, granjura - I was speaking only for myself of course.

Its not about being 'bothered or not bothered' à la Tate...

The British people want British Parliamentary Sovereignty and British Law, applied by British Judges in British Courts, according to the British Constitution ...

or not?

Well put, Rosesarered

Tbh I'm not bothered about the Court case one way or the other. If that's what it takes to get Brexit moving, fair enough. It's only delaying the inevitable.

You mean like Brexit, Maizie.

Violette

'I think the ultimate decision should be left to the EU and M. Junker ...who would have us all out and the gate slammed shut afterwards ,,,to teach any other EU member state a lesson ...for which we will all suffer ! Power to the People ?? not such a good idea..'

I am sure Monsieur Junker would if he could do exactly that because he is like those in high positions in the EU more interested in the enshrinement of 'Ever Closer Union' and the 'Free Movement of People' over the living standards of the people in the EU who rely on trade.

This has been the crux of all ills pertaining to the EU , not only in the UK. It is why the preferred idea of a Common Market as opposed to a Federal State of Europe has found legs and the likes of Junker know this to be the case, hence only fear and 'teaching lessons' will stop it spreading . If that is the company some like to keep so be it but to others it just appears arrogant and threatening .

As for your point 'Power to the People is not such a good thing ' What is your preferred stance living under Communism, Dictatorship, Removal of Sovereignty to what , a body of people who decree your laws, finances irrespective of whether they are appropriate for national enhancement and standard of living. Hmm.

I voted Remain in the referendum but to be honest I did it with a pen hovering over the ballot paper. After numerous threads and watching /listening/reading posts on GN , media coverage I honestly do not know if my vote would stay the same.

Perhaps 'gloating' is one of those Humpty Dumpty words. As in 'A word can mean anything I want it too'...

Call it gloating if you wish - I personally call it FACT

I suppose you won't read it- but here it is, again- clear as a bell:

What is Article 50?

Article 50 of the Treaty on European Union allows a member state to notify the EU of its withdrawal and obliges the EU to try to negotiate a ‘withdrawal agreement’ with that state – it involves five points laid out below.

“Any Member State may decide to withdraw from the Union in accordance with its own constitutional requirements.
A Member State which decides to withdraw shall notify the European Council of its intention. In the light of the guidelines provided by the European Council, the Union shall negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union. That agreement shall be negotiated in accordance with Article 218(3) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union. It shall be concluded on behalf of the Union by the Council, acting by a qualified majority, after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament.
The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period.
For the purposes of paragraphs 2 and 3, the member of the European Council or of the Council representing the withdrawing Member State shall not participate in the discussions of the European Council or Council or in decisions concerning it. A qualified majority shall be defined in accordance with Article 238(3)(b) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union.

Well at least some of us tried- we explained, again and again- what Article 50 is about and how the process works. We gave links, and videos of Senior European Law experts - and they all explained that very clearly. But you said you didn't want to read links, or watch videos, or listen to experts-

but they were very clear about the process. A member leaving the EU has no right at all in taking part in the negotiation process.

Well, we didn't have to wait long.Told you Lily
yes, lets have the nice Mr Junker decide our fate shall we? without any input or bargaining at all.

I would think the 'vested interest' many people have in the outcome is to find out EXACTLY what Brexit means in terms of both their every day lives as well as in terms of investment and business for the UK/Europe.

At the very least Parliament will, or should, ask for a clear (as clear as is possible anyway !) manifesto of events ...i.e. EU citizens living and working in Europe ....and UK citizens living and working, or retiring, to mainland Europe ....and their rights following the exit of the UK .....trading terms and arrangements, and the likelihood of costs increasing. The problems of Gibraltar.border with Spain, Irish borders ......(and maybe Scottish borders eventually !!) ....nothing is clear and nothing has been explained. Its all very well for the PM to inform people that she is not prepared to give a running commentary, but SOME idea would help people plan for their future. I watched QT last night, and I could not believe the people who shouted 'The UK voted OUT so why aren#t we out' ...why haven't you triggered Article 50 ? You said this, you said that (to the |Politicians on the Panel) ...how ignorant is that ?! of course it was never going to be instant as some people thought it would be ......for the promises alone, which were obviously hype that could never be achieved (millions more each week for the NHS ...closed border immediately !) this is what the people wanted to hear ,,,and so they believed it, Throughout history wars have been caused because lies have been told by seemingly charismatic idiots ...wherever there are people who feel aggrieved and left behind in terms of wealth and lifestyle so they wanted to believe ...whereas all the three musketeers seemed to regard the referendum as a bit of a 'jolly jape, what !' with their painted busses and ranting and raving .....no wonder they have gone to ground ! With dear Boris as foreign secretary what next ? WWIII I shouldn't wonder ......even some people who voted OUT are now thinking they made mistake .....so what hope for the rest of us ? I think the ultimate decision should be left to the EU and M. Junker ...who would have us all out and the gate slammed shut afterwards ,,,to teach any other EU member state a lesson ...for which we will all suffer ! Power to the People ?? not such a good idea...

They're already gloating - don't recall any Brexit voters doing so after the referendum!

Lily You ain't seen nuthin' yet , they haven't really got going at the moment, so expect much more.

I thought the Remoaners were the apogee of ungraciousness in defeat until I saw them in what they thought was 'victory'.

But the NO vote in Scotland meant nothing had to be done, or changed. If the YES votes had won by a similar margin, think of how complex their 'divorce' from the rest of the UK would be.

You can bet your life someone would soon have been challenging the legality of the referendum in that case!

Exactly POGS it's all down to what some people wish to hear.

www.politicshome.com/news/uk/constitution/news/80500/gina-miller-hits-back-hatred-and-anger-online-trolls

She's also had masses of racist abuse. Not proud to be British again.

Good quote, granjura. Why can't Brexiters see that it's what they asked for? Power to the people, through the people's courts.

"Why are you cross about yesterday?" asked James, "when the British people, who like you want British parliamentary sovereignty and British law applied by British judges in British courts...so you're really cross about something happening that is exactly what you want."

£95,000 pledged already for the crowdjustice fund.

Question if referendums are only 'advisory' why the hell doesn't Sturgeon say the Scottish Independence Referendum was only 'advisory' .

Question.

The Scottish referendum was accepted as a vote for 'NO' by a percentage of 55.30% NO. 44.70% YES.

NO2,001,926(votes)55.30 %
YES1,617,989 (votes) 44.70 %

The EU Referendum was accepted as a vote for LEAVE by a percentage of 52% LEAVE. 48% REMAIN.

LEAVE 17.410.742 (votes). 52%
REMAIN. 16.141. 241 (votes). 48%

Why is one Referendum deemed legitimate and the other advisory???

Question

Sturgeon repeats the fact Scotland as a country voted to REMAIN in the EU referendum but the referendum was a decision by the voters of the United Kingdom , NOT one country.

Sturgeon repeatedly states the vote in Scotland was 'decisive' a ' higher percentage 'voted REMAIN, yet the principle of a democratic vote and a 'higher percentage' vote to LEAVE is apparently NOT 'decisive'.

Why?

A democratic vote took place for the ' population of the UK' as a whole and a higher percentage voted LEAVE . How can that not be 'decisive'?. You can't keep spinning results to suit your ends , at some stage that simply becomes implausible and goes against the principle of accepting as 'decisive' the majority vote wins.

An MP. Stephen Phillips, has quit because of his differences with the government Brexit policy.
I've checked him on theyworkforyou, and he is a QC and has been working at the same time as being an MP, earning £180,000 over the last year. Being an MP was just pocket money.