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Brexit and power to the people

(437 Posts)
whitewave Fri 14-Oct-16 08:18:55

Really interesting court case and day 1 of "The Royal Prerogative"

It basically boils down to whether a minister -in this case Amino 1 - can remove rights established by an act of parliament.

It raises questions of "fundamental constitutional importance about the limits of the power of the executive"

Pannick, QC for the challenger, said " this court is not concerned with the political wisdom of withdrawal" "The government was wrong to suggest the legal challenge was merely camouflage to prevent Brexit"

Pannick's client the court was advised had again received threats, abuse and insults.

A further QC - representing the people
Argued" the constitution of our parliamentary democracy, unwritten as it is , is predicated on the sovereignty of parliament and the courts working as arbiter. Notification of withdrawal leads to the removal of the rights of UK citizens.
Chambers QC argued that the referendum did not replace the UK system of parliamentary democracy"
If the government triggered A50 it would be setting itself up as "de facto legislature"
This is a case about what is legally required, not what is legally expedient.

Good ain't it?

whitewave Tue 06-Dec-16 12:57:56

Yes I agree they won't but that doesn't mean that the DM isn't doing its damnest to undermine the rule of law by influencing its readers..

Ana Tue 06-Dec-16 12:17:44

Well I still can't see how hordes of enraged red-top readers are going to affect the Court case and the result, and we've discussed that headline already.

whitewave Tue 06-Dec-16 12:11:09

I think the governments case is going to be lost on the domestic issue as we were querying yesterday.

ana nothing to do with the way people vote. It's about the constitution and the rule of law. The trouble with the Daily Rag is that it doesn't respect the rule of law -well at least not when it suited it. Note the "enemy of the people" headline. Quite disgusting.

Ana Tue 06-Dec-16 11:48:42

Yes, those pesky DM readers - you'd think they'd know their place by now!

After all if it hadn't been for the likes of them voting 'the wrong way' we wouldn't be going through this farcical performance now, would we? wink

whitewave Tue 06-Dec-16 11:41:39

Do hope the bullying by the right wing press make no difference. I am sure the judges will take no notice but the readers may be swayed by these tactics

JessM Tue 06-Dec-16 10:38:27

Yup, presumably only one female judge has risen to these illustrious heights. We all know how the US appoints its supreme court (if we've ever watched a US political drama that is).
Oh lordy, it's a palaver! But basically panel of judges recommends to PM and queen rubber stamps.

durhamjen Mon 05-Dec-16 20:26:20

A comparison between UK and US on how they are chosen.

fullfact.org/law/how-supreme-court-judges-are-chosen/

You'd think the queen could ask for more women.

whitewave Mon 05-Dec-16 18:48:06

Glass ceiling?

durhamjen Mon 05-Dec-16 16:10:00

I agree. A good short version is needed.
I think the JackofKent blog will probably have that.

And why is there only one female Justice?

whitewave Mon 05-Dec-16 15:32:30

Most certainly dj All based on case law. I haven't had time to sit and listen to it since 11am, so have missed some of the argument, would like to see a good short version.

Personally I am hoping that this case brings an understanding that the prerogative powers are indeed a left over from history, and should be even further limited.

durhamjen Mon 05-Dec-16 15:12:07

It's hard to follow, whitewave. Do you think that's because we don't have a proper constitution and therefore have to rely on case law all the time?
That'a obviously why there is so much paperwork in front of them all.

durhamjen Mon 05-Dec-16 13:13:00

I think that's the point of the case, whiewave. You can't use RP just because it suits you at the time.
What happens if the queen doesn't agree?

Any idea who is shouting outside, whitewave?

whitewave Mon 05-Dec-16 11:40:41

What I am not understanding is that if the RP covers those areas above. How can it cover domestic issues?

whitewave Mon 05-Dec-16 11:33:21

Royal prerogative -

Used in War and Peace and foreign affairs.

Argument that it (RP) is a power to act for the public good.

Q. What if you have a dodgy government?

whitewave Mon 05-Dec-16 11:17:13

What a breath of fresh air to be able to listen to the arguments without all the noises off side and political spin

JessM Mon 05-Dec-16 10:12:27

And it is quite right that Parliament have some say in what Johnson gets up to. He is still talking about pie in the sky - everything we want and nothing we don't want.
If he wanted to have co-operative and constructive negotiations he (and the PM) would start by reassuring current EU residents of UK that they are welcome to stay as long as they like. But instead, why not put up the backs of the EU governments even more...

news.sky.com/story/four-point-brexit-blueprint-revealed-by-boris-johnson-10683108

whitewave Mon 05-Dec-16 10:06:02

Court case starts today. The judges are to preside over and rule about the British constitution. They protect us from dodgy governments and sovereigns.

I have absolutely no doubt the Daily Trash and like minded rubbish is doing its damnest to knobbly the judges and try to sway their impartiality. We've already seen disgraceful headlines like "enemies of the people" how ignorant and wrong can they be??!!- such anti-constitutional sentiments are a danger to our way of life.

Don't get confused and assume this case is about Brexit -it isn't - it is about our representative form of democracy and protecting its existence.

durhamjen Wed 30-Nov-16 20:14:11

The latest on the case. From the legal team.

r.mail.crowdjustice.co.uk/4a2m66anale3f.html

whitewave Mon 21-Nov-16 07:08:43

I hope it won't be a case of the tail wagging the dog Again!

The Tories can be such wimps at times. This is what got us into this mess to begin with

durhamjen Sun 20-Nov-16 22:55:28

I bet Theresa May wishes she'd never taken on the job. They should have made Cameron stay and see it through.

www.thecanary.co/2016/11/18/even-chancellor-turning-theresa-may-party-implodes-brexit/

JessM Sat 19-Nov-16 21:18:57

Remember the good old days when there was a faction of the conservatives who wanted to leave the EU and Dave the PM came up with a wheeze that he'd let them have a referendum to shut them up?
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38037119

durhamjen Sat 19-Nov-16 10:42:31

Will she see sense, though?

whitewave Sat 19-Nov-16 09:41:00

May being pressured by a lot of senior Tories to drop the court case

durhamjen Thu 17-Nov-16 18:58:46

Does parliament having a debate on CETA count as power to the people?

If ordinary people hadn't pushed for it, we would not have known about it until it was too late.

"UK Members of Parliament are to finally debate controversial EU-Canada trade deal CETA after Trade Secretary Liam Fox MP admitted that he intentionally side-stepped parliamentary scrutiny when he gave UK consent for the approval of the deal – the exact opposite of ‘taking back control’."

From War on Want.

durhamjen Thu 17-Nov-16 13:34:01

How Brexit and Trump divide ordinary people.

www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2016/11/17/rich-right-wingers-are-leading-a-phoney-war-against-the-libe

I saw the results of a poll about what the people want from Brexit.

90% want free trade
70% think EU immigration should be controlled
86% think EU citizens already here should be allowed to stay
63% think there should be no change to banking between EU and UK
61% think there should be shared fishing rights
70% think there should be customs checks on people and goods from EU
65% think that EU health and safety rules should remain.

It makes me wonder what Brexiters voted for.