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Theresa May 3

(1001 Posts)
MaizieD Mon 31-Oct-16 11:17:50

Very interesting article about T May. Forgive me if it's been posted before.

I think that the author is proposing that the Murdoch media have been superseded by the Daily Mail in setting the agenda for 'British' and that Theresa May is a product and perpetrator of its agenda.

www.opendemocracy.net/uk/anthony-barnett/daily-mail-takes-power-0

The Daily Mail takes power
Anthony Barnett 5 October 2016

After 25 years in politics Theresa May has no obvious connections to any think tank. She shows no interest in ideas. Asked by Conservative Home in a Quick Quiz session to choose between Burke’s “Reflections on the Revolution in France” or Louise Bagshawe’s “Desire”, she replied, “I wouldn’t read either of them, sorry.” The prime minister who faces arguably the Kingdom’s deepest constitutional predicament since George III was driven from the Cabinet by the loss of the American colonies dismissed out of hand the idea that she might ever turn to the pages of Burke, even though as a student she had chaired a society named after him.

As the country faces an unprecedented concatenation of economic, strategic, diplomatic and constitutional uncertainty, the woman at the helm seems devoid of intellectual resources. The one decision she has definitely taken is to give the go ahead to Hinkley Point C nuclear power station, a boondoggle incapable of justification by any criteria of integrity. The Pharaohs built their own pyramids, Theodoric built his own mausoleum. But these were designed as monuments to generate the admiration of posterity. Surely only an idiot would make their first decision the go-ahead for a colossal radioactive tombstone to her regime.

But Theresa May should not be dismissed as an idiot. There is a striking and potentially formidable coherence to the general direction she has set for her new government, evidenced by the self-confidence of her ministers who remarkably quickly are singing from the same song-sheet. She does seem to have a clear ideology refreshingly different from her predecessors. Where has it come from?

The answer is The Daily Mail. On Sunday in her first speech to her party as its leader, she set out her view of Brexit and announced that she intends to trigger Article 50 to start the UK’s withdrawal from the EU before March. This was a moment of upmost gravity, to recognise and measure the immense divisions that have been opened up within the country, and consider the implications for the entire continent that Britain once helped liberate from fascism. Instead, her tone, brevity and apparent practicality were drawn as if directly from a Daily Mail editorial.

Intelligent comments section, too.

daphnedill Sat 21-Jan-17 12:47:20

I feel sorry for the nearly 18 year olds who weren't allowed to vote. They will be 20 by the time the UK leaves the EU and will be starting their lives without the opportunities their parents had.

rosesarered Sat 21-Jan-17 12:51:18

Excellent post niggly
I don't think it will ever come to deciding what to do ( on a personal level) because I believe that it will be implemented.

rosesarered Sat 21-Jan-17 12:52:19

Well, that's just tough then (18 year olds)
The law says 18 and that's it.

durhamjen Sat 21-Jan-17 12:57:32

This man isn't a backroom lawyer, he's a real one.

jackofkent.com/2017/01/an-argument-as-to-why-a-hard-brexit-will-be-the-natural-and-direct-consequence-of-an-article-50-notitification/

Mair Sat 21-Jan-17 13:11:59

Why didn't the politicians who are now desperate to reverse the referendum allow it to be held under those particular arrangements? Why on earth didn't they insist on a proper debate at the time instead of shouting now when the horse has bolted?!! As I understand it, the arrangements for the vote went through without a murmur!! Was this on the arrogant assumption that all would be well?

Of course, and there would have been no legal academics digging through ancient precedents to argue that the referendum was only 'advisory' and that we should have had a 75% turnout thus it must be rerun!

The law is rarely black and white and a sufficiently skilled academic lawyer with the time and motivation to overturn the current interpretation might well be able to do so. Sadly that is unlikely to happen as academia is heavily biased in favour of the EU and globalism as their careers depend on international mobility. Meanwhile Government is bound to abide by the Rule Of Law even while those who interpret it do so through the prism of political activism. Nor are likely to get support to challenge from Whithall which is also fiercely pro EU and where lawyers have their own work to do and do not have the time to indulge in research in time consuming esoteric points of consitutional law.

Its not a case of 'post truth' or not 'believing' experts, but understanding that those experts hold a great deal of leverage and do not hesitate to use it. Whether certain posters are simply naive or well aware of it but wilfully turning a blind eye to such bias when it supports their own political agenda we can only wonder.

rosesarered Sat 21-Jan-17 13:14:06

The blind eye...every time ! grin

MaizieD Sat 21-Jan-17 13:19:27

Agree with your post 11:48:51 MaizieD but think some who voted remain might have changed their minds too

As they have every right to do so.

But the original question was so vague and everything around it was so ineptly handled that I think the country deserves a chance to make a decision based on a negotiated deal so that they really know what they'll be getting, not a pig in a poke. And in a properly devised referendum.

I think referendums of this kind are possibly not desirable in the age we live in with so many different media outlets to sway people who are perhaps ill informed or biased this way or that. Best left to Parliament to decide on our behalf saving a lot of time, money and heartache.

I wholeheartedly agree with you, nelly. David Cameron should be hung out to dry and made to live on bread and water for the rest of his life for what he has done to the UK.

GracesGranMK2 Sat 21-Jan-17 13:20:17

Really interesting article Jen and also interesting to read the comments. Did people vote to be poorer? I would echo this comment:

"I agree with those who say people did not vote to be poorer. Or at least, not intentionally, and not themselves. I think there are some leavers who voted to make other people poorer, in a ‘them’ and ‘us’ way. ‘Them’ being people more prosperous, the South, bankers, professionals, Poles, you name it."

I agree with his analysis that so called 'hard Brexit' is inevitable as soon as Article 50 is filed and always was; leaving is leaving. I also agree that May (who is what this thread is about) knows this and is prevaricating to keep it from the electorate until it is done.

Mair Sat 21-Jan-17 13:20:24

Incidentally does anyone other than her cheerleaders bother reading DJs sans synopsis random links (usually to 'Full false facts )? grin

You'd spark more interest DJ if you either summarised, included a relevant quote or clarified the point you are trying to make.wink

durhamjen Sat 21-Jan-17 13:23:24

jackofkent.com/2016/09/waiting-for-brexit-a-note-on-contentions-and-biases/

The referendum is not legally binding.

MaizieD Sat 21-Jan-17 13:24:13

Of course, and there would have been no legal academics digging through ancient precedents to argue that the referendum was only 'advisory'

They don't have to do that. That was what Parliament was told before they debated the Referendum Bill. That Cameron told the electorate something else is an indication of just how thoroughly bad a PM he was.

The only thing that slightly cheered me up after the Referendum was losing Cameron and Osborne. The cheer was momentary, though.

daphnedill Sat 21-Jan-17 13:25:26

Thus spake Mair! grin

durhamjen Sat 21-Jan-17 13:26:11

Roses, in Scotland 16+ year olds had a vote on their important referendum.
Why should the EU referendum be considered less important for that age group?

durhamjen Sat 21-Jan-17 13:28:02

Maizie, have you seen how much they are both making out of it, though? That's sickening.
Osborne is still an MP. How often has he been in parliament since May sent him to the back benches?

MaizieD Sat 21-Jan-17 13:28:40

and is prevaricating to keep it from the electorate until it is done

But she's not prevaricating any more, is she? That's what she announced in her Lancaster House speech. Hard Brexit. Surely nobody believes that she can get any concessions on passporting and the Customs Union from the EU. I find that as believable as £350 million a week to the NHS. Especially with Bojo trotting round the world offending as many EU countries as he can possibly manage to.

MaizieD Sat 21-Jan-17 13:31:05

And now, the man who saddled the UK with more debt than in the previous 30 years is going part time as an MP (what contempt for Parliament and all hardworking MPs that shows) and taken a job advising an Investment company shock

Mair Sat 21-Jan-17 14:03:41

Roses, in Scotland 16+ year olds had a vote on their important referendum.

Yes it was ridiculous. Children who are not mature enough to vote in a general election are certainly not mature enough to vote in a more complex referendum.

It was a political manipulation by the SNP and they still lost

rosesarered Sat 21-Jan-17 14:04:56

No, I don't think many people do read the links that djen provides....I had a look at a few of them, and they are all from very left wing biased points of view and often from sources like bloggers ( haven't checked as yet but 'jackof kent ' may well be one as well.)
Sturgeon hoped to sway the Independence referendum by allowing 16 year olds to vote, but even doing that didn't get her what she wanted.

rosesarered Sat 21-Jan-17 14:06:12

X posts!

rosesarered Sat 21-Jan-17 14:09:16

What do expect Osborne and Cameron to do now, a bit of part time window cleaning?

durhamjen Sat 21-Jan-17 14:09:27

But you do read my links, roses. You just said so!

rosesarered Sat 21-Jan-17 14:11:09

I checked out a very few ( out of the thousands that you bombard us with) but I have no need to check out any more.

durhamjen Sat 21-Jan-17 14:12:38

I am proud to be left wing. Of course my links are from left-wingers.
JackofKent is a blog, but he's a lawyer. I put it on because you said we are all backroom lawyers. He isn't. He's aproper lawyer. If you read his blog, you would probably find he agrees with you.
But don't read it. I don't want you to read anything that agrees with you and Theresa May.

JessM Sat 21-Jan-17 14:18:46

Well it will be interesting to see what the Supreme Court has to say this week.

durhamjen Sat 21-Jan-17 14:27:06

Apparently the government wanted a preview, but the court said no, they would find out when everybody else did.

You really should read the JackofKent links, roses. You will find out I am not as blinkered as you are.

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