Is the sexual orientation of a judge relevent?

But I think that is where the confusion is. A referendum is not Britain's democracy. We are not a plebicite democracy but a Parliamentary one. There a many times when Parliament have taken decisions that huge swathes of the electorate have disagreed with. MPs now know,as a result of the referendun on EU membership, that the country is split in two. They also know that many of the 52% were voting about things other than EU. There is no clear populist mandate to trigger Article 50. It is too close a call.

Following on from the lack of support for the judicial institution from May and her government. The way that they tried to retain the power to decide Brexit to just the 3amigos plus one. The way the media has speed vitriol and hate, particularly towards the "foreigner"

I was reading this and wonder if it rings any bells.

The fascist playbook

1. Build a wave of nationalist/nativist populism based on real or perceived grievances; make it a movement.

2. Blame the "other" from within or without.

3. Denigrate and weaken legal institutions, and call into question their legality.

4. Assume additional powers within a small group or an individual.

5. Apply these powers against the enemy within with the support of the press.

Hmm Now why does that sound familiar?

Pogs you are missing or misunderstanding the point entirely.

The judges have ruled that sovereignty lies in Parliament through representative democracy.

There was an advisory referendum with the result showing the country completely divided with a tiny majority in favour of leaving.

If the supreme judges agree with the original ruling then parliament as our representatives will debate the kind of society/country we want after Brexit.

End of. Nothing about rejecting the referendum. But never confuse populism with democracy. Intelligent politicians will refer to a divided Britain and undoubtedly this will play a part in how they see a future UK.
It is entirely right that they do so.

Parliament hasn't rejected the outcome of the referendum.

The court has upheld British values by affirming that sovereignty lies with parliament and not rule by decree.

The Telegraph, Sun, Mail and Express have deliberately misrepresented the facts.

I am not a Brexiteer but I too am sad that British values are being undermined.

The principle that our Parliament voted by 6 - 1 for a referendum for the electorate to decide if we Stayed in or left the European Union. A democratic vote took place and the majority vote went in favour to Leave.

It then followed that the EU referendum, unlike the Scottish referendum, was only advisory. I can then accept that Parliament should give the backing for the government to trigger Article 50 if that is what is required.

What I cannot accept is for Parliament or the House of Lords to then reject, ' refuse to accept' the outcome of the democratic vote ,the referendum vote they had voted for to take place.

The ultimate undermining of British Values.

If the referendum was only advisory I don't know why Nicola Sturgeon has not claimed the Scottish Referendum was only advisory.

I am sad that so many British values are being undermined and eroded by an increase in rather narrow thinking & lack of empathy to say nothing of attcks on the British democratic process by some Brexiters who seem to want some form of plebicite rule!

Durhamjen feels ashamed to be British because of the Brits who behave badly. I feel pretty proud to be British despite them.

Nobody else has to feel ashamed.
I do. That's all.

I find it interesting that our long established British Parliamentary democracy is now being a focus of some Brexiters fury! They misunderstood the Referendum & thought it was replacing the established system of decision making.
It turns out a referendum cannot be used that way. Another bit of political smoke & mirrors. A referendum should inform our democratically elected MPs about the mood of the electorate so decisions can be made using that information. With the outcome being so close it does not give a clear direction. What it should do is to make all politicians realise they have to listen more carefully to ALL of the electorate..and that includes the 48% who wish to remain whist also considering the preferences of the 52% who voted to leave.

I agree with you, jane.

What's the point in saying 'I'm ashamed to be British' when it's only a tiny minority of Britons who are behaving in such a disgusting way?

I agree with janeainsworth. I am neither ashamed nor proud of being British. At the present time, it does seem that the more unpleasant elements in our society are coming to the fore, but there are still many many decent people who are not eaten up with hatred and resentment and who go out of their way to help others.

I think the same applies to other countries too, although I do worry about the quite virulent anti-immigrant feelings that are gathering momentum in several other European countries - more widespread and vicious, I suspect, than what we are experiencing here.

I don't feel ashamed, or proud, to be British.
Being British was an accident of birth and nothing to do with me.
Surely we can only be ashamed or proud of our own actions.
I do deplore the hatred in our society that has manifested itself since the Referendum and I think the attacks on the judges appalling.

Durhamjen, if I understand you correctly, you understand that the prejudices you come across here are found in every country, and if you were a citizen elsewhere and heard the same things, you would be as ashamed to be associated with their country as you now feel about being British. I'm with the others in that I feel that to say you are ashamed to be British implies you are ashamed of all us Brits and everything we stand for. But I'm sure you don't mean that and we need too interpret what you say in context.

I AM ASHAMED TO BE BRITISH.

Couldn't care less if you think it's silly.
Many people do like saying them. That's why it gets worse and worse.
That's why some people feel they have to stand up to the bullies and say we are ashamed of our fellow countrymen saying these things.
Don't bother trying to twist my words again.

I must have missed the 'jokes'...

that's social media djen and it goes on in every country in the world [nasty, racist, vile comments] as do assaults/taunts etc in RL in every country.So, saying you are ashamed to be British is silly.Saying you don't like those things that go on is another matter, and tbh most of us everywhere don't like them.It's up to the police and the social media sites to do something about it, and no doubt they will.

twitter.com/hashtag/WheresLizTruss?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

Top news on Twitter

t.co/Vptj26KYNR

Where's Liz Truss?

I am allowed to say I am ashamed to be British just as anyone else is allowed to say anything they want - unless it's illegal.
I do mean it, roses. I have a lot of family who are not British.
As I said, being ashamed does not mean you give up citizenship. It means you try and make those who make you feel ashamed think differently. You do not accept people writing nasty things on social media without challenging them. You stand up for people who are being abused, being told to go back where they came from, being told they should get cancer and die, two bullets behind the ear.
Is that really something to joke about?

I have no idea what Maizie means at all, the saintly Guardian comment was obvious to understand.

saying that you are ashamed to be British is frankly ridiculous.Wish posters would stop it, as they have no intention of taking up your helpful offer *Jalima nor do they really mean it.
POGS and others, including Fitzy have made valid points but it doesn't suit some posters view of things.

Both the Times and the Guardian also ran profiles of the three Judges, and included the information that the Master of the Rolls is gay. The unique point here, which I think led to this being mentioned, is that he was the first openly gay judge.

It is just a rather daft and superficial remark that is being bandied around in the media at the moment.
It is a facile and ridiculous statement used by some journalists who should have a more rigorous knowledge of the English language to enable them to get across their point.

I'm not ashamed of my nationality, because I'm not responsible for the idiots who share the same nationality.

Very sensible statement daphnedill

I am not ashamed to be British either but it doesn't mean I agree with UKIP, BNP, any extremists, bigots, criminals etc etc who may share my nationality.

It takes all sorts and it is the same in every country. (just look at America for a prime example.)
Are people ashamed to be American because of either candidate? I doubt it.

Maizie, ignore the stirrers!

I'm not ashamed of my nationality, because I'm not responsible for the idiots who share the same nationality.