Consensus and detente on racism

Children learn attitudes by absorbing them from those around them. One thing they learn is how whole races or religions or cultures are labelled without any consideration of the individuals within the group.

Even you posting that there must be something about Yemeni men, based on your knowledge of a nice one and his family, is a generalisation. I don't doubt that there are some Yemeni men who are not so nice as him, and that there are men from other countries who look similar to him who are just as nice as he is.

Gransnet!!!!

That was a reply to Ian68now Several posts arrived while I typed!

The left has used name calling and abuse of those who did not share their views to silence debate which was a great own goal since it drove dissenting opinion underground. Those with rational, reasonable and moderate views learned to keep quiet to avoid being labelled a racist, a bigot or a fascist.

The result of this was that swathes of decent, ordinary but silent people came out on election days and voted for a Conservative government and then for Brexit to the astonishment of those who silenced their neighbours but forgot that those they abused had a vote in a secret ballot.

One of the greatest faults of the left was to deliberately assume the irrational view that if someone disagreed with one, single tenet of an opposing opinion they were to be lumped in with the far right. Thus it was that, if Islam's inherent misogyny was qeven mildly questioned, the interlocutor was accused of being racist and of hating everyone different from them, an absurd and insulting assumption.

The consequence of this was seen in the Rotherham, Rochdale child-raping scandals where abuse continued for years for fear that local authorities could be accused of being racists for identifying the actual perpetrators of monstrous crimes.

People did not even feel they could speak out aginst this outrage so they voted instead.

As here so in America with the shock election of Donald Trump, the left created the right.

I could take you to a pub in southend where a large number of South Africans and Zimbarbwians drink. They hate ( their words) one another, and nobody talks about the animosity between blacks and Asians.
Did anyone hear the Cuban lady on the radio explaining that many Central American immigrants were voting for Trump because they hated (her word) the Mexicans.
Reading between the lines on here I think there are a lot who don't live in a multicultural area, if you did you might see that it's not just the whites hating the blacks/ Asians/ Jews.

lily I think there is some traction in your argument. I also think that the argument of the fascist right, which has so long been silent also gives "permission" for these ideas to surface.

Did anyone watch the wonderful Alice Roberts programme The Incredible Human Journey recently on how early humans left Africa and colonised the world. DNA tests have been done on just about every race and ethnicity in the world and we ALL have African genes.
It is also likely that people with dark skins who now live in Northern countries, will gradually turn paler and paler as their need for sun protection decreases. We are divided only by culture, religion and tradition but I feel in this country, the majority of traditions, especially food! are welcomed and become "ours".

There is a difference between racism and prejudice.

I once heard an Australian child of no more than 8 refer to another child of white/SE Asian parents as 'Eurasian' , and it was said in a derogatory tone. She could only have heard it at home - so much comes from the parents.

I do dislike it when people who have objections to certain aspects of Islam, and don't think they should be condoned in a Western democracy, are called ' racist'. Of course they may also be racist, but the word is used far too much about people who are not in the least racist about the colour of anyone's skin.

It is perfectly true that there is a great deal of racism around the world between non white peoples - black/black, brown/black, you name it, and anyone who still thinks it's purely a white evil is painfully naive.

'White' thinking is the norm and everybody else is expected to assimilate. It has always struck me as ironic that Obama is often called the first black President of the US when he isn't. His ancestry is as white as it is black. It's as though being white is the norm for a President, but Obama's DNA has been tainted. Americans expect a President to be white.

Interesting point, daphd. I have always been under the impression that people who are only part "black" regard themselves as black or, nowadays, as "people of colour", whatever the actual colour of their skin.

I don't get the statement "Americans expect a president to be white". The Americans I know don't. Plus, since Obama isn't white (not as most people understand it anyhow, which I think is "looking Caucasian"), isn't it just daft to have such an expectation when the country has had a black president for eight years?

This link goes to a short video (about 6 minutes) and an article that give different views about why Trump won the presidential election. I think it encapsulates the basic contrasting general views on the subject of the win and racism. The guy ranting in the video blames "the Left" (of which he is a member) and the article blames endemic racism and white privilege.

Racism and prejudice against ethnic groups, different sexual attitudes, religions etc will continue until everyone, regardless of their background, gives others the respect they expect towards themselves.

So true missdeke

I wouldn't regard "Eurasian" as a derogatory term although I guess it's how it's said though. One of my sons had a girlfriend, half Indian half Welsh, absolutely gorgeous. She referred to herself as Eurasian, simply a blend of the two races. Great results.

petra I didn't understand your first post at all

Re your point that racism isn't just confined to (some) white people but in fact it cuts across all nationalities, races and cultures, that is true, but it's not to be used as an excuse or a justification of racism.

Message deleted by Gransnet for breaking our forum guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

I have a West Indian girlfriend who told me that there are sections within West Indian communities in Britain who don't get on with Africans. She said that there is a perception from some Africans that West Indians are the descendants of people who were taken and enslaved and as such some Africans look down on them, seems a weird rationale but am just repeating her words. My friend was originally from Jamaica came here as a baby, she said that she didn't feel that just because she was black she would necessarily have anything in common with a newly arrived person from Africa (again her words).

I have also heard that Somalians do not get on with West Indians and turf warfare has sometimes broken out between the two factions. Possibly this was the type of thing Petra was alluding to.

Anya. What part don't you understand?

Having lived in the USA for nearly 5 years there is definatly an understanding as to who "belongs on what side the tracks"
This is apparent even in Orlando but even more so in Atlanta which sees itself as being as important as being the same as NYC of tge south...it is here where there is a county in which you have to go to "present" yourself to the utility companies just to make sure you're white. Only in NJ where we lived blacks & whites are trwated the same.
The USA will always have rasism...it be never ever be fully wiped out

@Elegran

My point in posting about my daughter's boyfriend is that he's British, looks British, has a British life...he is British, but he has a Yemeni surname. I make no assumptions about how Yemeni men behave, but others assume he's a Muslim and see him as some kind of potential threat and he seems to bring the racists out of the woodwork.

@thatbags

Why should a person who is mixed race regard themselves as black?

Are you saying that anybody whose white DNA is 'tainted' by genes from another race, however distantly, are black? It's not as though people are pots of pure white paint, into which somebody has dropped a few spoons of something non-white, but that's how it appears to be seen.

Obama was brought up by his white mother and I believe has white half-siblings. Why should the colour of his skin make any difference at all to his self-identity?

Yes, he's been President for eight years, but he's had to put up with racist abuse from the alt-right media for most of that time.

Daphnedill.
Concerning your comment on rascism I am interested in knowing what 'age group' you place those you refer to as 'a considerable number of people ''especially older ones'' that hold racist views.'
Ageism like rascism was prevalent in certain areas of 1930s' Europe.Look where that ended.

Why should a person who is mixed race regard themselves as black?

They just do. It's as though they'd rather be associated with their black roots than their white roots. Haven't you ever noticed this before, daphnenill? I'm surprised.

On chat sites for Over 50s for a start ~lol~

Errrmmm...I'm interested in 1930s ageism. Please give more details.

Try this for starters...

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-27599401

Perhaps, rightly or wrongly, it's something to do with a feeling of acceptance and 'belonging'.