Autumn Statement and the "Just About Managing"

Toffs? U can hardly call Mps from working class backgrounds toffs.. however I certainly agree we have a gimme ,spoilt generation..
Prepare for the biggest shake up for the last 45 years!

Britain spends £368m on treatment for Irish nationals, while receiving £23 million back from Ireland - a gap of £345 million. In total, £197 million is paid out to France, while just £6.3 million comes back.

The NHS fails to keep proper records of overseas visitors who come here from the EU, meaning it is impossible to know how many people come here and receive treatment.

The figures do not include treatment for those who migrate to this country from elsewhere in Europe.

Other countries include Italy, which received £11m but returned £850,000; Greece, which collected £8m and paid back £500,000; and Spain, which received £247m while sending Britain £3.2m.

Julia Manning, chief executive of the independent research think tank 2020health said: “The fact that the NHS fails to keep proper records of overseas visitors who come here from the EU is indicative of two problems: the reluctance of staff to think of the NHS as a business that should be run as efficiently as possible, and a system which depends on governments chasing reimbursement, rather than visitors paying up front and being responsible for ensuring they are repaid.”

The Department of Health said that some of the difference could be explained by the fact that more pensioners from the UK retire overseas, yet are classed as “non-permanent residents” - meaning EU countries can claim payment for their healthcare - while fewer foreign pensioners come to the UK to retire.

EU migrants who work in the UK are classified as being resident here and qualify for free NHS health care, meaning that if they travel back to their homeland for health care they are considered UK citizens and the bill is sent back here to be picked up by the NHS.

A spokesman for the Department of Health said: “Last year we began a wholesale review of the current system to address concerns about access, cut down abuse and consider how best to ensure those who should pay do so.
"We are looking at a range of options and will set out proposals in due course.”

Article in the Telegraph for those who cannot see it.

Spain received £247m while paying back only £3.2m...unbelievable!

Ana.... £197 million is paid out to France, while just £6.3 million comes back.

No wonder they are a bit miffed that we are LEAVING The EU.

The article in the Telegraph is based on fictional figures. Someone has sat down and made them up. How do we know that? Because hospitals and GPs don't (in the main) ask people about their residency status. My husband holds an Irish passport but the only place that is recorded is on the confidential version of the electoral roll. So where on earth could they get the figures from other than sitting in their office and going "Hmm, let's see, how many foreign people do we think might be getting free treatment?"
NHS Trusts can charge people if they choose to make the necessary enquiries. That is quite different to asking all us UK residents to roll up to outpatients with proof of residency.
To clarify "Jams" is apparently what they started calling people in the Treasury, after the PM declared something must be done for them. (and the term escaped into journalism) Nothing to with either jam, mobile phones or holidays.
The definitions for this category are as wooly as "hard working families" and "squeezed middle". All a bit fuzzy but we want your vote
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38049245

Daphnedill hate to upset you as you are always an interesting read but :

The 2013/14 HBAI report gave median household income (2 adults) as £23,556. The provisional results from the April 2014 ASHE report gives median gross annual earnings of £22,044 for all employees and £27,195 for full-time employees.

Actually I thought it was about £26k so it is more than I thought :-)

hospitals and GPs don't (in the main) ask people about their residency status

I had treatment at a walk in centre a few weeks ago, JessM, and as I was in the waiting room a lady with a German name and strong accent was asked how long she'd been in the country, so perhaps it's starting now.

She was very cross about being asked, and it turned out she'd lived here since 1946.

Interesting post Yorkshiregel and high time the NHS Sorted out the mess that surrounds overseas visitors getting free treatment which they are not entitled to.
Successive governments have allowed this aspect to just slide.

Maybe all those figures mean that more UK people do health tourism in other countries than come here for it. After all, there are quite a few cancer patients who go abroad for treatment that cannot be obtained here.

Not usually to Spain or France though...

When I had minor op earlier this year I had to fill in a very long form about my nationality. Re nhs saving
Money why not ask everyone to buy their own soluble aspirin s and stop the repeat prescription s over bureaucratic nonsense.

Ruth1958 I agree with you. We should know how to tighten our belts, been in much worse situations and survived.
But it's the comparison with the rich upperclass who don't need to do this, and are governing us that rankles.

Oh come on, I don't think many (if any) government ministers are 'upper class'. Some of them aren't even rich.

www.google.com/url?q=https://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/apr/07/treating-uk-tourists-in-europe-costs-five-times-more-than-equivalent-cost-to-nhs&sa=U&ved=0ahUKEwihxfmD-sHQAhVEF8AKHQvbD-gQFggFMAA&client=internal-uds-cse&usg=AFQjCNHZlqLzQX5sHgNfzQVEvBQvBFAlbg

Uk health tourism in France costs five times as much as French health tourism in UK.

The Simap trade union said that non-Spanish EU nationals in Alicante, where Britons are by far the largest group, now accounted for 15% to 20% of people treated in local hospitals.

"Spain's health service is quick, free and offers a wide range of services," said Dr Juan Benedito of Simaptoday. "It is not surprising that people come here."

The Socialist former head of the Extremadura region of Spain, Juan Carlos Rodríguez Ibarra, warned this week that "scrounge tourism" was bleeding money out of Spain's health service.

I agree with you, Ana. Cameron and Osborne were probably the most toff-like MPs we've had for a while. Most of the rest are bright, ambitious and intelligent people. I believe they start off with a strong belief they can serve their country, although some do let power go to their heads. It's a difficult balance, because MPs do have to have a sense of self-belief and self-confidence, which can easily turn into arrogance.

So our living standards have plummeted. Our NHS is going down the pan. The poorest group will be even worse off by 2020. And we are blaming the EU

@TriciaF

Running a national economy is not the same as managing a household budget. It's the myth that we need to 'tighten our belts' (because that's what a household would do) which is a major cause of Britain's economic problems - and, yes, the economy is in poor shape, whatever the fantasists would try to claim.

A neighbour of mine went to Germany for an op she couldn't get here. So it's not all one way. The service / treatment was excellent there.

www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2016/11/24/one-cannot-stress-enough-how-dreadful-this-is/

@whitewave

Well, we have to blame somebody, don't we? It couldn't possibly be because we are responsible! [sarcastic smiley] We're Great Britain after all and we're always right. It's all those Johnny Foreigners who are out to get us with their weird ideas. [very sarcastic smiley]

The Spanish health service must groan under the weight of the retired Brits.

I wouldn't worry about health tourism in the NHS, with the cost of Brexit unless we all receive less pension and the young pay more taxes the NHS will fold because we will not be able to pay for it.

@suzied

Exactly! EU citizens would have to be crazy to come to the UK for a planned op when they can go to other countries. I know a number of former colleagues who went back to France or Germany for medical treatment.

Having said that, my ex MIL, who lived in South East Asia for over 15 years used to come back to the UK for medical treatment. She didn't pay UK tax and used her daughter's address when she came to the UK. When I raised eyebrows about the ethics of what she was doing, she claimed that was OK, because everybody did it.