Autumn Statement and the "Just About Managing"

daphnedill I do realise that ex-pats come here for treatment. I wasn't really talking about them because they have paid something in to the system. What I am talking about are foreign born people who come here for operations, or to have a baby for example, then go back to their country of birth.

I agree with cagsy. People, and particularly Government and councils, do not care for the poor as they should. They take from the poor and give to the rich and this Autumn Statement is a good example of that.

When I was growing up it was the norm to rent. There is nothing wrong with renting or being in a council house. What is wrong is people having large families so they can live in big houses at tax payers'expense. Also another problem is as someone said, landlords selling their property on, and also councils putting disruptive and aggressive people mixed in with old age pensioners, or people with young children. I know someone who was so fed up with constant noise from people in the flat above that he went upstairs and banged on their door. He was confronted with a 15yr old aggressive teenager who screamed abuse in his face, about two inches from his face actually, and because he pushed her away he was charged with assault, giving him a criminal record. The family have been evicted now, not because of this but because they failed to pay their rent and completely trashed their flat.

Henry Mayhew's nineteenth century study,'London and the London Poor', pointed out that people move in and out of penury and prosperity as and when they reach certain stages in their lives and it is as true today. My DH and I had two good incomes and were frugal in everything but we were alays in the red at the end of the month when we had children. We are better off now they have left! It will be the same for the JAMs. Ask them in a decade and they'll be fine.

That is a book worth reading, Lilyflower You can download it or read it online at openlibrary.org/works/OL2789010W/London_labour_and_the_London_poor (and other sites)

Very interesting Lilyflower. Thanks for the link Elegran. Plus ca change eh?

Astounded at the way the Tories are explaining how important it is to increase borrowing. Take them back 9 months and lo and behold the opposite was true apparently.

Things have changed. It isn't Brexit you understand -it is what any good CEO would do to keep the show on the road. Ever heard of cause and effect -apparently not.

Edinburgh is about to buld ten of these tiny home for homeless people at a site in Granton. They are well insulated, far better than a park bench. At about £38,000 each they seem a lot cheaper than most houses, or even Park homes! That doesn't include linking up to services, of course, or roads or such things. However, it could be a new start for some homeless people, and if it works the project could be expanded. I hope it is not just a bit of scruff Granton waste land miles from any shops or buses.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-38085047

IFS have said this decade has been worst for living standards since the war and due to lower productivity and projected higher inflation (post Brexit) there is no prospect for improvement. It's always those at the bottom of the heap who have, and will, suffer the most. I feel real despair for public services and NHS after the Autumn statement. I think reality will start to hit people next year. Personal credit is almost as high now as pre 2008 crash as interest rates are so low at present. Watch this space!

@Lilyflower

The IFS did a research project about people moving in and out of penury even to this day. I'll see if I can find a link. The point is that National Insurance should cover people for the 'down' periods, but increasingly doesn't.

How many people come to this country to have a baby? How much money are these people costing? Exact figures please!

I realise that you weren't thinking about ex-pats, but they do make up a significant proportion and are cheating.

I watched the one show last night and it was highlighted how much money the NHS lose by not getting back equipment it has loaned out. Things like crutches, walking frames, commodes etc. There were even hospitals who refused to have them returned in case of bacterial contamination. Surely they could have them cleaned. When they loan things out, all they have to do is keep a record (on patients notes on computer) who has been issued what. Simples. After a period of time, they could contact the patient asking if they still needed the equipment, and if not, ask them or a relative to return it to the hospital. There were people with crutches etc in cupboards under the stairs. When my father died, social services collected everything he had borrowed including a hospital bed. It ran into thousands of pounds over the year how much was lost in unreturned stuff. It maybe a drop in the ocean, but when you are strapped for cash every little helps.

JAM is just a distraction. Lots of people being moved of the jobless totals. Social housing at all time low. Big business benefits going over the top.
It will be workhouses and soup kitchens for some soon. 1 in 4 Children in Scotland live in poverty. This doesn't happen by accident and can't be blamed on fecklessness.
The sooner we challenge Mrs May on her inability to give a government for all the better.

One subject that is never mentioned is how much 'stuff'. Is stolen from Hospitals.

What's that got to do with JAMS? Or is it a diversionary tactic to avoid the issue?

daphnedill ...ok, explanation please ...how exactly do you think us ex pats are 'cheating' ??? Figures would be interesting ! Our medical care is reciprocal, courtesy of insurance and taxes paid all working lives .....health service here is not free, although we are affiliated to the health service here (23 euros to see the doctor) most things are paid for, but we tend to be referred to private clinics for some things, for which we have to pay (in my OH's casem 700 per leg for vasculaire surgery,,,the rest paid by the top up private obligatory insurance),,,,,WHY does the UK NHS (and yes, I did work i it !) ...not CHARGE people who do not have the right to make use of its services > especially for interpreters ,,,as I have said before. after living in two European countries, if you do not speak the language sufficiently then, at your own expense you must provide an interpreter or you will not be seen....quite right I think ! ....especially when I read a case in the UK whereby an interpreter was provided and the husband of the female patient refused to allow her to speak as the interpreter was a man ! ye Gods !!

As for the JAMs...we are in that category despite having what looks on paper a good income through various pensions ....but the cost of living is up, the exchange rate is down, taxes have to be paid on prior year income ,,,,house prices have completely flat lined and if we were forced to return after the wonderful Brexit we would not be able to afford anything to rent or buy ...shipping containers for all ! I like the sound of those small houses in Scotland ! although I expect they are meant for youngsters ...most things are, whilst we OAPs are blamed for all the ills ......but then, we did not have anything way back then especially things on credit that we could not afford,,,and no parents able to help ! It probably made us more able to cope with what life throws at us !

Some general stats for you:

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/10022601/NHS-counts-900-million-cost-of-treating-EU-visitors.html

I agree with you, grabba. It's a meaningless phrase, just as 'hard working families' was.

The median income in the UK is hovering around £18,000pa, which means that half of working people are earning less than that (some considerably less) and they're struggling. It's a constant battle to rob Peter to pay Paul, with little prospect of the situation improving.

Homeless people visiting foodbanks aren't even on May's radar. This is about the half of the population, who are living just above or around breadline. Half!

Most commentators on the Autumn Statement agree that, combined with the cuts to Tax Credits, 30% of the population will end up worse off. That's not helping the half, although I guess May is hoping that it might swing a few votes her way. The trouble is that with the state of the opposition, she doesn't have to bother much.

violette those small houses are meant for the absolutely homeless and living on the streets, so I don't think you'd be in with a chance! and there will only be 10 of them, so there could be a waiting list.

I foresee some developer latching on to this and installing a whole load of them somewhere to rent. A bit like the prefabs that went up in the post-war housing shortage.

Just referring to the original post which mentions NHS funding and the black hole. Not a diversity tactic.

Nothing to do with JAMs, (horrible degrading phrase) more to do with the second sentence in the opening post by JessM. ie the problems with the NHS.

How much do other EU countries, especially Spain, spend on treating UK patients? I can't access the Telegraph article, so just wondering if it mentions them.

Why would EU citizens come to the UK to have a baby, when maternity services in some other EU countries are so much better funded? They could go there.

Diversionary. Typo

Entitlement to free NHS treatment depends on the length and purpose of your residence in the UK, not your nationality. Simples!

Nothing changes does it?

www.amazon.co.uk/review/R2PN6KZNTUYQ4F/ref=cm_cr_dp_title?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B0006D84HC&channel=detail-glance&nodeID=266239&store=books

STOP whining ! What's this silly JAM phrase just another thing for the neo liberals to get hysterical about. For goodness sake if you have enough thank your lucky stars! A bed, a meal and shelter...we've all got soon greedy. The safety net is for the NEEDY not the GREEDY! Stop moaning! NHS should be there for the needy not every pseudo ailment under the sun!

What planet are you on?