Autumn Statement and the "Just About Managing"

Very interesting Lilyflower. Thanks for the link Elegran. Plus ca change eh?

That is a book worth reading, Lilyflower You can download it or read it online at openlibrary.org/works/OL2789010W/London_labour_and_the_London_poor (and other sites)

Henry Mayhew's nineteenth century study,'London and the London Poor', pointed out that people move in and out of penury and prosperity as and when they reach certain stages in their lives and it is as true today. My DH and I had two good incomes and were frugal in everything but we were alays in the red at the end of the month when we had children. We are better off now they have left! It will be the same for the JAMs. Ask them in a decade and they'll be fine.

daphnedill I do realise that ex-pats come here for treatment. I wasn't really talking about them because they have paid something in to the system. What I am talking about are foreign born people who come here for operations, or to have a baby for example, then go back to their country of birth.

I agree with cagsy. People, and particularly Government and councils, do not care for the poor as they should. They take from the poor and give to the rich and this Autumn Statement is a good example of that.

When I was growing up it was the norm to rent. There is nothing wrong with renting or being in a council house. What is wrong is people having large families so they can live in big houses at tax payers'expense. Also another problem is as someone said, landlords selling their property on, and also councils putting disruptive and aggressive people mixed in with old age pensioners, or people with young children. I know someone who was so fed up with constant noise from people in the flat above that he went upstairs and banged on their door. He was confronted with a 15yr old aggressive teenager who screamed abuse in his face, about two inches from his face actually, and because he pushed her away he was charged with assault, giving him a criminal record. The family have been evicted now, not because of this but because they failed to pay their rent and completely trashed their flat.

I do think that the worst political decision that was made was "right to buy" that's why there is no good reliable social housing / there are moves afoot to extend RTB to non council housing too - ridiculous. I think everyone owning or having the right to own is the root to many of our modern housing evils. No one will vote for non self interest, most are too entitled to vote for philanthropy these days. Yes renting will cost as much as a mortgage but if I leave this house which I won't be able to afford to heat or maintain if I stay as it's too big and expensive now, I won't get a mortgage as a lone woman retiree.... So renting here I come!!

daph you are so right!!

I don't get it about why or when they stopped charging non-residents for treatment. Before I moved here and got my settlement visa (now am citizen), I had emergency treatment in a hospital in 1991. I did not think to take out travel insurance.

Being from the US, I was sort of shocked to see there was not a 'billing/cashier' office to visit when I left. No one had a clue how I would, or if, be billed. Three months later back in the US I got a bill for about £500. I got an international money order and sent it in. I would never have dreamed of not paying. That treatment would have cost probably £1,500 in the US, so I counted my self lucky and paid up.

When I moved here for good the next year, I had to show my DHSS form and passport to our surgery to sign on. Why aren't these things being done now?

@whitewave

I would say since 3 May 1979.

It is ridiculous for the government to try to scapegoat "foreign tourists" in the hope that the lack of funding by the government will be blamed on others.

Anyone with half a brain will know this to be post truth, to use another ridiculous phrase.

That's how our parents voted cagsy they understood about social justice and caring for your fellow citizen.

Since the 80s however, the individual and self interest has been prompted resulting in the Hugh inequality we see today.

Yorkshiregel,

I assume you do realise that many of the people who receive NHS treatment illegally are ex-pats with British nationality, who aren't eligible on residency grounds.

The biggest problem with the NHS is that it's underfunded.

Well said, Cagsy.

Renting doesn't make you're a second class citizen, but what it does mean is that you'll still be paying rent when you retire. It's the fact that so many baby boomers own their own homes and are mortgage free which plays a significant role in making them better off than working people. Home ownership for all age groups except pensioners has fallen by an average 10% over the last few years and is still falling, which means that current working age people will have higher housing costs when they retire. People who inherit money will, of course, have enough for a deposit, which will increase inequality between families (dynasties).

Lozzamas, you will probably find that rent is as expensive as a mortgage. Depending how much equity you would release by selling, you'll almost certainly find that the money wouldn't last long.

There's nothing wrong with renting at all Lozzamas, if there's good social housing to rent but renting from a private landlord can be precarious - especially for children. If a private landlord decides to increase the rent, or sell up to someone else who then ups the rent, which happened to my son and family,you're really stuck. You have to wait for about 2 - 3 weeks after moving to get your initial deposit back whilst the new landlord wants an up front deposit plus a month's rent. And if you have school age children you could be changing schools every few years, very unsettling for them and disruptive of their education.
Only with our help have they now managed to buy a small family home, with a garden, in a not too expensive area, just in time for the children to start school/nursery.
Lots of good people care about others, give food to foodbanks, support homeless charities etc, etc but to really change anything would mean us all leaving self interest behind at the ballot box and voting for the most needy in our society - but I don't see that happening sadly. Social justice, just as any real justice for poorer people seems more of a pipe dream than ever

Salary/wages have not risen in real terms since the Tories took office. The longest pay restraint since before the last century.

The deficit built on by the Tories is the highest it's been since the end of the WWll, and likely to get higher.

The jams will find themselves even worse off by the end of this Parliament.

Perhaps I've lived too long - owning a house was not common when I was growing up. My parents were unique in their families by buying a house and leaving council or privately rented accomodation... It now seems to be the expected norm. There is nowt wrong with renting it doesn't make you a second class citizen. My daughter rents now, we own, but when I retire we won't be able to afford our bills so I will probably have to downsize and go to renting.

Last whinge then I am off to do what needs to be done.

If the NHS was more careful about how it spent its money there would be more to spend on essentials. I was given a course of pain killers which were not strong enough. My doctor replaced them with some that did a better job. I asked her what I should do about the 4 boxes of pills that were unopened. She said keep them for a while or take them back to the pharmacy to be destroyed. Apparently they cannot re-use any drugs that have already been given to someone else. Now as these drugs cost an arm and a leg I think this is a complete waste of NHS money. Employing agency nurses is another area where money could be saved. Providing more care 'in the home' instead of allowing old people to block beds because there is no-one to care for them is another. Sending ambulances out of their area is another. Some ambulances are waiting hours for a bed to put their patients in. That of course means that their hospital is then short of ambulances. Providing local clinics instead of A&E departments would put a stop to over-stretched staff in hospitals. Making overseas patients pay for their treatment is another obvious money saving scheme. Why should people be able to jump on a airplane, come here for treatment, then travel back to their own country? All paid for by the UK tax payer. We are crazy offering a service like that. People need to be given treatment, but they should be made to pay for it.

Unfortunately the media and a lot of the public are falling for the use of Brexit as an excuse.
This is down to Osborne's mismanagement and Tory ideology.
They are still going ahead with their big vanity projects.

Your 'they' are only a minority yorkshiregirl. Far too easy to blame the nation's problems on 'them'! Life is much more complex than that.

OR 'They' being the youngsters (the ones with the mobiles and aps and fancy clothes, shoes, handbags etc).

Perhaps I should have made it clearer?

'They' being 'Those in charge of the country and its taxes' ie The Government/Chancellor.

The Chancellor hinted at it in the Autumn Statement, but now it is in the open. The triple lock on old people's pensions is now at risk of being scrapped. They want to use the money to help the young to buy their own homes etc. Might as well talk about it in the open seeing as the cat is out of the bag.

Not content with robbing us of our interest on our savings they are now targeting our pensions.

If we go to a bank and get a loan we have to pay interest. If they manage to sell us their ISAs etc they cut down our interest until it is non-existent. The banks are behaving like loan sharks and getting interest free loans from us now. They have just announced a new bond we can buy. Well they have to rake in the money from somewhere.....Sshhhhh, they still have not told us we need a license to have a computer, ipad, or mobile 'phone, oh yes, what about having to buy a license for a cat! That should help them out a bit.

Just about managing ? When the welfare state came into being it meant that the elderly could sit at a fireside (usually a relatives) and read the paper. Now it is all about keeping pace with a society that has far more to offer, television, computers, phones, own homes, cars, people are living longer and better. Quite right too!

How to afford it all is the big question.

Just about managing, implies a roof over ones head and a meal on the table but to be included, in modern society all the above has to be found as well.

The more complex things become the more it all costs.

We have become used to such a high standard of living that we just don't see it anymore. There is still real poverty of course........but we seem to ignore that I suppose it is a bit unsightly.

Hoi yorkshiregirl who is this 'they' you are talking about? 'They' are a tiny minority. Most of the population are not in the position you mention.

IIRC 'affordable housing' means the cost is 20% less than the local cost of buying or renting in an area, i.e. 80% of the full price. Not what most people would imagine.