An oath on British Values?

Merkel couldn't decide on her own this has to be agreed with the whole of the EU - thus making for huge challenges.

POGS

Excellent referenced post!

This further underlines how pathetic and appeasing May would appear if she was to unilaterally guarantee th future of EU immigrants.

In fact I am sick and tired of EU immigrants moaning about insecure they feel! They should be lobbying their own media, ringing their own radio phone ins and demanding that their politicians strike a deal with May to protect their interests!

I hope BRits in Europe are complaining just as much to their media over there about EU intransigence.

The fact that 27 countries have to agree anything at all that needs agreeing tells you what a lumbering beast it is.

Although ww Germany usually get their way if they want something ( within the EU)

I thought a British value was to raise an eybrow to show distaste and never talk politics or religion at the dinner table

I do think it is arrogant to think there are some special 'values' that are particularly British and are not universally decent human values seen amongst citizens of many/most nations.

We may have some specific cultural habits and traditions but that is different!

Nor should one speak about money!! That is truly vulgar.

A stiff upper lip at all times in the face of adversity.

The fact that 27 countries have to agree anything at all that needs agreeing tells you what a lumbering beast it is.
The fact that Luxembourg consistently blocked tax reforms is very suspect
www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jan/01/jean-claude-juncker-blocked-eu-curbs-on-tax-avoidance-cables-show

This charming man has a lot to answer for - in fact he is probably the reason some people voted Brexit.

Not since Diana!! We let it all hang out at her demise.

WW you say

'Merkel couldn't decide on her own this has to be agreed with the whole of the EU - thus making for huge challenges'.

You are correct but sadly it is not only the position taken by Merkel is it!

What about Donald Tusk , he was representing the European Council of which he is President.

You and others are happy to blame Theresa May but fail miserably to accept the well trodden statement by the European Council/Commission/Parliament. ' There will be NO negotiations before Article 50 is triggered'.

So why is Theresa May being blamed?

They are ALL equally to blame because of their incapability to do as required to safeguard the welfare and employment of citizens throughout Europe and 'talk maturely'.

It also points to the

'

There has been no mature talk at all within the EU, just a lot of posturing and spitefulness. They may have been reeling from the result at first, but what's the excuse now? We all know they are desperate to stop any other countries defecting, but in the end, we (and them )have to talk business.

But if they won't, then article 50 needs to be triggered ( was going to be March) but all the lawsuits are holding things up.

I certainly didn't let it all hang out at Diana's demise...

I am not an expert on the minutiae of the EU and who said what to whom..I only know what is in the various media outlets and those are usually biased anyway! There have been some huge benefits to being part of a European Union which I suspect many will not miss until they are gone! I hope that when negotiations begin in earnest that we will come out of it better able to support the vulnerable, maintain important shared research, protect the ordinary 'foreign national' families currently living in UK/EU so they are not disadvantaged, and still be able to feel that GB is a European nation and not another US state!

I know that I very much dislike the attitudes of those Brexiters who promote the Little Englander /xenophobic reasons and whose language implies a white British supremecy. That alone would make me want to Remain. I know that is not all leave voters but these fascists have the loud voices!

pogs

With regard to article 50. Somewhere in the depths of the gransnet archives we covered exactly how this works, and we always knew the process, in fact the UK actually was the biggest influence in its structure.

We knew that nothing will take place until article 50 is invoked. All the negotiations will be carried out by the U.K. with EU represtatives, who will be instructed on how to proceed by agreements taken place exclusive of the UK and behind closed doors.

Unfortunately the EU holds the whip hand both over negotiations but also with those who are doing the negotiations. We have very few experts we can call on, in fact we've just got rid of one.

Of course I shall be watching the government closely and expect a good result that can take the majority of the country with them. As I have said previously the vote is far too close to ignore the wishes of those who wished to remain in the EU.

Farage wants rid of more experts. I can't wait for all those experts who wanted the UK to remain in the EU to follow Ivan Rogers if they can afford to, rather than stay and take the blame for Brexit.

You really are hoping for the worst, aren't you durhamjen? How unpleasant.

And IDS. They are being too arrogant and ridiculous, we simply need all the help we can get hold of, as you can absolutely be sure that the EU is lining up its biggest guns.

Civil servants are there to advise their masters. That includes occasionally saying things that they don't want to hear. Anything less would be worthless. However, once the executive has decided on policy it is absolutely up to all civil servants at whatever level to carry these wishes out without question. Britain is served so well by its civil service, and to suggest otherwise is wrong, and like biting the hand that feeds you

WW

I think posters are well aware of Article 50 and I only mentioned it to make a point re the 'debate' going on over 'Reciprocal Arrangements' between the other 27 countries and the UK.

As you say 'we knew nothing would take place until Article 50 is invoked'.

That's my point and I am confused as to why knowledgeable posters keep blaming Theresa May for something they know, or I thought they would, is out of her hands. One can only conclude it is the desire for some posters to try and 'have a go' at politicians they dislike, which would be fine if their logic was sound and could be proven.

Time will tell won't it.

Well pogs of course our government is going to find it a real challenge, and we hope that they have a good strategy in place which we hope will be a well kept secret until they have to show their hand. However a plan must also be produced, and I would expect it be put to parliament, and this is what is a tad worrying, as I would expect something by next month as the following month it is intended to invoke A50. I think May is giving a speech soon so let's be optimistic.

I can't help but smile at the hypocrisy over the Ivan Rogers resignation to be honest.

Why hypocrisy? The ones who are 'defending him' , 'believe he is the best man for the job' are for the most part those who said when David Cameron came back from his negotiations with the EU prior to the referendum 'It was crap'. 'He came back with nothing'. ' Showed his weakness'. Who was by his side , was it not the same Ivan Rogers they now hail as the best negotiator we have?

He could well be the best thing since sliced bread but the dark art of political spin and bias is alive and kicking.

Apparently, whitewave, David Davis's minders won't let anyone near him unless they have something positive to say about Brexit.

Wasn't it Theresa May who gave the date for article 50?
Not out of her hands at all.

This is worth reading.

theconversation.com/ivan-rogers-resignation-in-febrile-brexit-britain-it-seems-even-public-servants-are-fair-game-70840

As to us continueing to live in Germany I must say it is not top of the agenda at the moment. Occasionally there is a cartoon and as far as I know personally a few Brits including DD1, and one Scot have applied for German ciizenship.

Fr Merkel has nothing much too say about it, she assumes the Uk will send its lawyers and she will have hers. It is not Fr Merkel herself that decides anything, her government will decide for the best. I can't see anyone here sending a European worker home who came in good faith and was employed.
The trouble here is trying to find enough people to fill job
vacancies

durhamjen

Yes she did, once she was made Prime Minister.

Perhaps as a Corbyn devotee you would have agreed with invoking Article 50 immediately after the referendum. Mind you I think he has changed his mind hasn't he?

Now of course we are waiting for a judicial decision.

It still doesn't acknowledge the point that Theresa May had tried to get an agreement over the subject but was refused point blank though does it.

Never ending rounds of he said, she said, political spin and
inflexibility by those who hold the power. What's new.