An oath on British Values?

That makes the case very clear Gilly

Sorry, Anya. Am I not allowed to join in the discussion?
Hadn't realised.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

I don't know Anya, maybe Jane can answer that.

The recent immigrants of any significant numbers are surely EU e.g. Poles & Romanians. I don't know the statistics but I expect there are far more from the EU than say Syrian war refugees and economic migrants from Africa.

daphnedill My point being that Micheal Coe committed these crimes in the name of Islam.
What a shame that the police didn't act so quickly in the case of the child abuse victims in Rotherham.

I agree durhamjen that priority should be given to children living the closest but it isn't. In the primary school there is no policy for children living in the catchment area having first choice.

In the case of the secondary school my DGD can see from her bedroom window (but will almost definitely not get a place) the entrance policy is;

1) feeder primaries (she can't get into any of them) but she could if she was either in care or an immigrant/refugee as she would attract funding and they would want/take her even if they were full.
2) Sibling (she is the eldest child)
3) Looked after children see (1)
4) Distance (In the 4 years they have not had a place available for a child based on distance)

Do I feel bitter? Too right I do.

'Twas just a thought Riverwalk - you are probably correct.

When I worked as a legal exec. we had a large number of immigrant clients, most seemed to integrate into the British way of life very readily but those of the Islamic faith seemed to resist it. We would often have men bring their wives in to sign documents, the women did not speak or read English so were completely unaware of what they were signing, merely doing so on the instructions of their husband. I raised my concerns about this with the senior partner who dismissed my concerns stating the husband was acting as translator for his wife. I think a knowledge of English should be a requirement for admission - just as I feel those British who choose to live in France or Spain should also speak those languages.

In which case it's the funding policy that is the problem. I presume you are talking about the pupil premium.
Are there any refugees/immigrants in the class that your granddaughter would be in?

What's wrong with something simple like the Australian one which is taken upon being awarded citizenship?
But not if someone is just going to work there for a while or visiting! That seems a bit OTT

I pledge my loyalty to Australia and its people, whose democratic beliefs I share, whose rights and liberties I respect, and whose laws I will uphold and obey.

I've read the whole thread, Anya, and see no reason for your rudeness to me.

'As for Casey’s “headline-catching” proposal of a loyalty oath to British values for new migrants, Britain already has a loyalty oath for new citizens, but it is hard to think of anything less British than requiring highly skilled Irish, French, American, Chinese or Indian people coming to work or study post-Brexit to take a loyalty oath.'

It's a catchall proposal.

Oh boy this thread has got heated since I last looked! riverwalk I didn't mean to differentiate between those people I was just trying not to be too repetitive. We do indeed have quite a cultural melting pot where I live. We have a large Polish and Romanian population too.
Regarding this British values thing, my South African SiL had to take a very formal oath to become a British citizen. He had to study a lot too and it cost a huge amount of money. Does this still happen?

It is not the case whether there are any refugee/immigrant children in the class that she can't get into durhamjen I have no idea whether there are or not. I would hazard a guess, not. It is the case that if there were, they would have to be let in !

The bloody cheeky head teacher at the appeal even dared to ask me whether my DGC would attract the pupil premium ! I have had a meeting with the MP and brought this up. The MP was disgusted. Infact the MP even said "so it's more about money than space then" to which I said "obviously".

Sorry I digress from OP.

Wow, not surprised you are upset, gillybob.

Yes, Jane10, there is still the same costly citizenship palaver.
However, not everyone living and working here wants to become a citizen, particularly if they have to give up their birth citizenship. Not all countries allow dual citizenship.

gillybob I know it's no consolation but their are 1,000s like you all over the country who are just as furious.

West Yorkshire resident here so probably MUCH better placed than some regular posters to comment on issues of both integration and segregation.The fact is we have experience of both here but I recent years there has been a worrying shift to the latter amongst some,and I stress some,of the Muslim community.A rise in more fundemental religion and deeper entenchment in parts of the Asian community have been gradually causing concern.
Back in the late 60s my mum,as a health professional took it upon herself to learn Urdu so she could help the Asian women attending her clinics, and I regularly went with her as a teenager to do home tuition visits helping the same generation of women to learn some English.I found it fascinating and rewarding- and it was the start of a love affair with curries and samosas ! In particular I remember befriending a lovely 14 year old, the same age as me, who then suddenly disappeared from the family home.Both mum and I were very upset to learn sometime later she had been sent back to Pakistan for an arranged marriage, and had died in childbirth.That has always stayed with me ,and as I followed my mum into a career in midwifery and over the years saw first hand that still worryingly large numbers of girls and women were still not learning enough English,or being 'allowed' to integrate.Despite huge efforts from education, healthcare and our council. Obviously many girls did storm ahead in terms of education and achievement. But still way too much repression.And at these times the local market and town centre was ablaze with the glorious colours of shalwar khameez and saris.
Fast forward to today and observing the increase of full burka as the dress code,again for some,and the increasing feeling of ghetto mentality amongst SOME of the Asian population .That's not racist ,that's reality and therefore I wholeheartedly welcome Dame Casey's report.On the whole my home town has been welcoming,tolerant and appreciactive of the many benefits multiculturalism have brought, and how hard most of the immigrant community have worked and contributed.I'm immensly proud to have brought my family up here ,and how welcoming and tolerant generally it is.There is simply nowhere else I would rather live,and that's as much down to our wonderfully diverse population,as to the stunning countryside on our doorstep.But as my daughter found out a student in Bradford recently walking through wholly Asian areas respect for her an English,and very modestly dressed woman, was not always quite as forthcoming.Quite the opposite.Hearing about the Rotherham scandal came as no surprise, and as this report highlights it's time to stop being quite so PC and really be honest about the impact a large influx from different cultural backgrounds can have on our our communities.Especially if its over a short period of time and puts huge pressure on local resources as has been the case in some areas,Peterborough for example.Reflecting back my 94 year old mum said to me very recently we got it wrong.We made too many concessions,too many leaflets in every which language etc.And that's from a die hard Remain voter !
Ps. POGS if you still read these threads but don't post hello to you .Loved your post from Leicester last month.

Why do you think Casey's report focused so much on Muslims, then said all migrants should have to sign a loyalty oath, Washerwoman?

great post washerwoman and I agree completely.
Dame Casey's report highlighted that whilst British people were becoming more secular and liberal [and older] the Muslim people here were becoming more conservative, religious and younger.

Washerwoman Thanks for sharing that. I'm sure the majority of people are aware of the way things are going, but it's the minority who will hold sway in this debate, and for that reason, nothing will change, it's gone too far now.

Eloquent post washerwoman.

we have to hope that things will change Petra in RL [ am not bothered about the way it goes on a forum]

why do you think Casy's report focused so much on Muslims
Because the majority of immigrants who dont integrate are muslims, simple's
,

Because it seems that the Muslims give most rise for concern. Washerwomans experience is most concerning. Sadly I have similar experience even in such a culturally diverse area. Forced marriage. Forced marriage of under age girls to mentally ill men to 'cure' them was a particularly sickening thing. Islamic culture allows marriages that other faiths forbid. Child after child can be born each with more devastating genetic conditions. I realise that these are extreme cases - but they are real! I have worked or tried to work with these desperately ill used women. I haven't seen this in other religious or cultural groups. And Rotherham! These are not British values. If people don't like our values then they are quite welcome to return to countries where they can do things their way -but leave the women and girls here!!

Maybe it should concentrate on British Culture rather than values . I have no problem with immigration but would like them to have more help /encouragement to integrate because I think that fact that some don`t is what causes the problems. I was brought up in inner city Manchester with a large population of immigrants who made a huge effort to integrate , because of this they were accepted fully into our community .

I think there might sometimes (appear to) be a focus on Muslims because political Islam evidently does not accept the liberal values I referred to earlier.

I think it's always useful to turn around concepts like this. If I went to live in a country very different from where I grew up I'd expect to have to fit in with local customs and to live by that country's laws whether I liked it or not. I think this is a perfectly reasonable expectation to have of immigrants wherever they are from and wherever they go.

I'd be interested to hear what the reasons are of someone who disagrees with this view.