An oath on British Values?

durhamjen I wouldn't worry too much over this report because the PC tree hugger brigade will make sure of that.
In fact, I wish she hadn't spent so much time and some of my taxes by making me think ( but only for a nano second ) that things are going to change, they're not.

well, I agree completely [but am sure there will be a few who don't.]

but it will be interesting to see, thatbags

Jane10 mentioned the genetic birth defects in Muslim families. If you really want to be depressed, read up on it, it's horrendous. And that's not bringing into it the cost to the NHS. That is another 'elephant in the room' that nobody wants to talk about.

@ Washerwoman

This might surprise you, but I agree with you. It's some Muslims. It's very sad when people talk about them, as though they're a different species.

I've mentioned this before, but I'll repeat it. My daughter's boyfriend has a Muslim name. His grandfather came from Yemen (and is Arab), when Aden was still a British protectorate.

My daughter's boyfriend was born in Manchester and went to a well-known public school in the city. Apart from the Arab name, he also has dark(ish) skin. He says he feels like a coconut - white on the inside and brown on the outside. He has experienced racism first-hand. Even in a city such as Manchester (and he doesn't live in a ghetto), it works both ways.

The two of them are currently backpacking round South America and my daughter's boyfriend was actually anxious about being stopped at border control, despite his British passport and the fact that he had never been outside Europe before. He doesn't even believe in Islam.

I'm glad the report has been published rather than brushing the issue under the carpet, but I hope the public debate won't descend into an excuse for defending racist attitudes.

' Casey says that the promotion of the English language and the emancipation of marginalised groups of women should be at the centre of a new programme to improve community cohesion. Quite right. But it was only later that we learned that David Cameron’s speech in 2011 declaring the “death of multiculturalism” meant deep cuts – £400m plus – to the adult skills budget which pays for most provision of teaching English to speakers of other languages (Esol).

The 2011 census showed that not speaking any English was a problem that affected only 138,000 migrants, fewer than 0.3% of the population. Many of those who spoke no English at all were an older generation who had come as grandparents to join their families. Some have been in Britain for decades without learning English – not unlike the retired Brits on the Spanish Costas.'

Fewer than 0.3% of the population.

Anya, My post was NOT racist!! and I dont for the life of me understand why you think so, but there again you seem to jump on me most times when I comment!! Nothing is ever acceptable to you!

Thankyou Gillybob for seeing I was just posting my view on the subject and not being racist.

Anniebach why would you class me as an example of british values? Just because my views differ from yours does not mean I have no 'british' values!

Mumsy, it shows there is no such thing as shared British values does it not?

Then follow the other examples of the trigger happy and ask for it to be deleted.

No. It shows nothing of the sort.

(to Annie)

We were not a tolerant country in the fifties and sixties, those on the Windrush suffered awful abuse , what of the signs in boarding houses, no blacks, Irish or dogs , it took a law to stop this being said openly . The Jews were certainly not welcome in the 19th and early 20th century . Travellers are still not welcome

^Sorry, Anya. Am I not allowed to join in the discussion?
Hadn't realised^

If you are 'joining the conversation' then I suggest you knkw what the conversation was.

Now we know!!!

Ana, Mumsy says don't let thrm in,i disagree, where is the sharing ?

Annie, you can't conclude that 'there is no such thing as shared British values' just because a poster says something you disagree with.

It's a question of determining the values that most UK citizens do agree on.

The shared values are the ones that we don't notice because we take them for granted.

In which case how can we ask immigrants to swear an oath to abide by them?

Somehow, I don't think my values are the same as Theresa May's.

i agree Ana that we ought to be able, as a nation, to draw up some sort of agreement.

Some of your values may be more similar to Theresa May's than they are to those in some other countries, though, dj even if all of them are not. That is what I mean by the unconscious values that we take for granted.

Don't ask me to list which ones, because I am not a mindreader. To find out, you might both have to be marooned somewhere completely different to where you are used to and observe the values surrounding you there.

Going back to *Lucky's' post

"And this is what OfSted says they are:

- democracy
- the rule of law
- individual liberty
- mutual respect for and tolerance of those with different faiths and beliefs and for those without faith"

A fair amount of thought went into these. They'd be enough for me.

Perhaps one of them is the freedom to say in public that your values differ, without being clapped in jail.

If only!

We should say we have different values and stop claiming there is such a thing as British values.

But Elegran how could we expect immigrants to swear to uphold and abide by certain values but at the same time give everyone the freedom to say in public that they don't agree with them!?

I don't know, Ana but that is a paradox of "British values" It is the "I don't agree with you, but I will defend your right to say it" oxymoron. Perhaps people could promise not to act to the detriment of the country that is becoming their home, or the people who live there?

Or some such thing - it would need a lot of careful wording so as to make sense to both those enetring the country and the current inhabitants, and be acceptable to them all.