NHS winter crisis looms

Anybody from any political party ( yes! More than two around) can make comments on here without any sneering at their choice of political party from other posters.

Maybe ww your views could be said to be seen through the prism of leftist politics.
I do think your personal remarks to Mair on this thread are definitely rude!

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

I shall now do the gracious thing and retire

No but I'm irritated.

Which party do you think I may belong then?

So you answer with a question. Interesting.

You could belong to one of several pro EU left wing parties. Do you?

Blimey whitewave, you're being rather rude and personal. Is GN just supposed to be a two-Party site?

Which party do you think I may belong then?

WW
Yes coincidence.

Are your views your personal views or are you a party activist?

Gosh! Then it's just coincidence every that you are singing from the UKIP hymn sheet?

Whitewave,
Thats untrue my views are mine alone and do not represent any political party.
Are yours?

"When my brother went to medical school over forty years ago, there was already a shortage of GPs being talked about. Seems none of our governments have been good at forward planning."

Very true, and it suited the BMA for many years to keep the supply low because it not only kept salaries high but ensured doctors could enjoy geographical mobility and no unemployment. They have always had the government over a barrel.

Fortunately with the opening of additional medical schools (credit to Labour when credit is due) that situation has changed and they can no longer pick and choose as they please, but its not changed near enough. Train more so that doctors have to compete for good jobs just like other normal mortals.

No it isn't - it's all about your UKIP agenda

"What on earth do all your posts about the EU have to do with the crises in the NHS mair"

Its because we are discussing Doctor shortages and foreign doctors.
It is relevant.

"Yes of course it would be good to train and retain more UK doctors"

Glad you agree

"I was just cross at Mair's post."
Why? Its a perfectly reasonable position to hold.

"Our students may not fancy training abroad but its an option open to them."
It should be exactly that an option, for those who want it! The fifth biggest economy in the world should not be forcing its own students to go abroad to study as if we are a Third World country!
Is this the future you want for yru granndchildren?

"Travel broadens the mind".

Arguable! It is not a proven fact, nor is the definition of what constitutes a 'broadened mind'.

However we are not talking about 'travel'. Leaving home for the first time is quite a challenging enough experience for most eighteen year olds anyway, without having to simultaneously cope with all the extra challenges, and costs, of studying abroad. Most overseas undergrads in this country do not come here at eighteen fresh out of school, many are a little older, have often worked, and many have relatives livign here who they live with.

Forcing medical students to study abroad also disadvantages poorer working class student most, those who are more likely to choose a university close to home, and whose parents are least able to help with additional costs or bail them out financially if they get into trouble. They are also less likely to have parents knowledgeable about the differences good and bad livign in the target country presents.

Your comment is I am afraid very ill thought out.

As I said Mair its a 2 way street. Your GCs could gain exactly the same benefits by training and working other than in the UK.

What on earth do all your posts about the EU have to do with the crises in the NHS mair

"Why on earth would these temporarily imported doctors want to come here to cover our shortfall then be told to push off home once they're not needed"
Same reasons many Brits work abroad for a few years and then come home, same reasons Ozzies Kiwis and many Western Europeans come here of course:
a) Travel and the experience of living in another country
b) To enhance their CV (a spell in a British hospital gains many brownie points for a doctor from a Third World country)
c) More money than they earn at home
d) To polish their English.

Many countries such as Singapore and Dubai even the USA employ foreign experts on this basis. Why do you think Britain isnt entitled to do the same?

So many hospital closures and bed number reductions. I remember being at meetings and hearing that we'll not need so many beds and feeling like a one man awkward squad saying 'why not? The population is rising and so is the number of over 65s' and being laughed at. Well, as we say in Scotland -they ken noo!

You should watch 'Ambulance' a BBC series and '999 What's Your Emergency' which was aired on Channel 4.

They are an eye opener and not only show the stress and strain but the waste of productive emergency care the NHS has to deal with.

Watching last nights television programme about the NHS the lack of doctors wasn't the issue but the shortage of beds - it was absolutely chronic.

Remind me - how many beds has this government got rid of since 2010?

Agreed thatbags and high time that they became good at it.

When my brother went to medical school over forty years ago, there was already a shortage of GPs being talked about. Seems none of our governments have been good at forward planning.

jane not everyone's mind

But I thought that the Romanian training wasn't acceptable in the UK, so not much point qualifying over there if you have to do it all again in the UK...