I am totally sickened

I don't think I can get my head around this happening to anyone, let alone innocent children.

Horrible happenings, I despair at the suffering.

So true bellsisabelle

I agree with Daphnedill's post of 10:05:00. Christmas this year will be tinged with sadness, not to say anguish, for the events in the wider world.

Oops, started to post but hit wrong button. Scrap that and never mind.

Don't think......

How did that thread go off at a tangent when the OP was so heartfelt and full of anguish?

As someone said up-thread, there are many shades of Islam, just as there are many shades of Christianity and, no doubt, of other religions.

Hard to believe that both, and Judaism, all evolved from the same spiritual source.

Don't think I did, not for anybody who actually reads the posts.

DB not sure how you managed to dig yourself into that particular hole when it was another who made a rather crass remark.

How can the treatment or position of women not come up when discussing Islam?

I think that was my point of yesterday evening too dd

.... It is understandable to feel and express a gut reaction in the face of such horror
Bearing all that in mind, to me at any rate it is the youth of the poor children involved, rather than their gender ...etc

I never intended this thread to focus on the treatment or position of women in Islamic society, but of course like a river, a thread will often find its own direction, won't it?

PS. 25% of the children used as suicide bombers are boys. This isn't just a gender issue.

The parents probably couldn't do anything.

The kidnapping and use of children as suicide bombers has been going on for a while, but not often reported.

This is a BBC article from April:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-36023444

The murder of these little girls is sickening. I believe these children were murdered as they cannot have had any understanding of what was about to happen to them. Did they even know? Were they promised heaven as a reward? How could their parents and grandparents countenance this? Or were the children abducted?
As for the place of women in other societies, we all know that women and girls are seen as second class in many countries and religions, and yes, that applies to some women/girls in our own country. What to do? I don't know, I wish I did.

Those brands of 'Islam' are not the true faith, they are terrorists and murderers.

Our friends have Muslim DGC - but their son had to convert to Islam before he could marry, so no question of his Muslim wife converting to Christianity grammargran. She is not a submissive wife and the children are brought up as others in the UK, nor are our other friends submissive and their DC and DGC are well integrated. So, apart from the insistence on converting to Islam, they are all modern in their outlook.

However, it is not so for all, there is still FGM and still arranged marriages etc in the UK and some women are submissive.

That is just so true, daphnedill and puts everything into its proper perspective. We are so, so lucky over here.

*aren't

Nigeria and Syria are't in our midst!!!

LilyFlower"Unfortunately, in the name of multiculturalism and fostering the mistaken idea that all cultures are equal we have allowed religions based on misogyny to flourish in our midst. Anyone who pointed out in reasonable tones and with valid arguments that this was eroding the rights of women was called a racist."

Exactly LilyFlower.

Where does tolerance, acceptance, understanding stop in relation to these EVIL people?

We have to call it if we want to change the world for the better. It's almost palpable that civilised western nations are tip-toeing around some atrocious happenings in the name of religion for fear of, well, what exactly? Reprisals, upsetting some sort of multicultural balance?

I cannot believe anyone of sane mind would do that to a child. When the lives of females and children are so cheap and blighted by some inhuman males, we need to call those mad fanatics just that, and not give their terrorist groups or indeed whatever they worship, any kind of credence. Mild mannered and decent people of faith must be horrified and deeply saddened by events.

@NanaandGrampy

When I read about what's happening in Aleppo, I wonder what kind of values anybody has and how war will have affected those children who do survive. It's heartbreaking. I see the tat in Christmas advertisements and I can't help thinking that there are millions of children in the world who would be grateful for a roof over their heads, a quiet night's sleep, water, a decent meal and a family not in danger.

I am a C of E Nannima to Muslim grandchildren, and I can honestly say that none of the women in my wider Muslim family are treated or behave any differently from the non Muslims in the rest of my family or the wider community. Are we lucky? I think we're completely normal, especially after watching Muslims Like Us on BBC2 last evening. The monsters who sent strapped explosives to those little ones are exactly that - and bear no relation to any Muslim I know and love. I think they are like Kay in The Snow Queen - their hearts have been turned into blocks of ice ..........

Using children as weapons isn't new sadly.

I was in the army at the height of the 'troubles' in Northern Ireland and personally saw many, many instances where bombs or weapons were transported in prams under living babies, where children were indoctrinated from a very early age to loathe the British forces and actively take part in any activity designed to hurt/harm/kill.

They knew no different and perhaps this is the case here.

Good morning Daphne - don't stop posting and don't feel backed into a corner.

Don't stress Daphne. I know what you mean. There's 50 shades of Islam. Only the very darkest would even think of using children as human bombs. What a world.