The cost of Brexit for us; the ordinary people

You are very good at telling posters about themselves GG.....it's your strong point.

No, GracesGran. That's just not true.

Although if you'd like to trawl back through the posts since June perhaps you could highlight some of those Remainers' posts which counselled a 'wait and see' policy and we might take you seriously...

That's because you don't listen/read roses but set out with preconceived thoughts about the other posters.

If the immigration figures from Migration Watch using ONS stats are being considered
Dubious/ biased, then which figures can anyone else produce that are different, and from what source.
Also,as Ana says, I don't remember anyone who voted Remain saying 'oh lets just wait and see what happens shall we?' Some of us who voted Leave have been saying just that for quite a while, as nothing much will happen until March.

Mair neither whitewave or myself came on here proclaiming how the UK should be run, nor did we go on, and on, and on about immigration. That is your hang-up. You had put it up for discussion (although you don't discuss but just keep repeating doggy 'facts'). We have tried saying we don't agree and tried questioning where you are coming from on this - only polite in a 'discussion' and we have both told you we feel the answer is more complex than it seems you are willing to accept. We don't need to 'set our stall out' by saying "this is right because I say so" as you do. Our discussion is to discuss. (Although it probably isn't worth saying this as you will, yet again, believe you are the only one who can be 'right')

I do object to your accusation that I for one am not being "open and honest". I am. It is complex. There is no good just offering an figure which is 'acceptable'. That is not an answer particularly as we really do not yet have a properly framed question. What would be the best level of immigration for the UK? How can anyone know when we don't have an honest analysis of the problem we are trying to solve? Much of the information available has been distorted by the political parties and those on both sides in the referendum. Many of us have tried putting together the information we have but you really don't want to know. You just want to be right.

I believe that you believe you are being "open and honest" but I do not believe you are approaching this in a reasoned way nor do I agree that your solution is correct. I have been prepared to hear convincing argument. I love convincing argument as that is how we learn but you have not, in my opinion, put one forward. All you have done is repeat the same dubious/biased figures.

Don't know another language, except food in French.
well that is always very useful
As long as I know to avoid escargots I am happy!

I think you misunderstand the word "discussion" Mair. You don't want a discussion. You want an answer and then you can tell people they are either right or wrong.

No GG its you and WW misunderstand. You think its all about your asking questions and attacking and you are not able/willing to set out your stall in return.

WW in particular has asked me many questions which I have largely tried to oblige by answering. When the tables are turned she evades, time after time.

One cannot 'discuss' when one side isnt prepared to be open and honest but insists on keeping their cards hidden!

Jalima I am really glad I made you smile :-)

"It is very difficult to recruit Spanish language teachers in particular which is good for those who are qualified.
Spanish is spoken fairly universally."

It may be difficult to recruit those suitably qualified and fluent in English too to work in British schools but this is because those skilled enough are not available, nothing to do with the EU or Brexit. There arent as large numbers of British teachers qualified in Spanish as French either because the shift to Spanish in BRitish schools is relatively recent.

I actually believe we should focus entirely on Spanish, and make it compulsory for all to age eighteen.

"Does she think immigration running at roughly 600,000 a year (current level) is a 'good thing' or should it be cut. Its really not that difficult to answer if youre an honest person who wants an open discussion."

I think you misunderstand the word "discussion" Mair. You don't want a discussion. You want an answer and then you can tell people they are either right or wrong. It would only be your opinion of course but you seem to believe only you know the truth. I have said this many times ... it is so much more complex than that and should you ask to put that question to the whole of the great British Public you would not get it past the Electoral Commission as it starts by being biased.

Fact Check

Latest Migration Statistics, Year Ending June 2016
Estimates:

Immigration: EU 284,000 Non EU 289,000

Emigration: EU 95,000 Non EU 93,000

Total NET EU and NON EU 385,000

Migration Watch using ONS stats

There's lots of things I know sod all about. Mostly in the scientific field. Especially when I listen to my offspring. Not utterly brilliant at knowing capital cities either. Don't know another language, except food in French.

Ah, but daphnedill wouldn't say that to you, whitewave!

May have been me.

You really are fond of sounding off on topics, about which you know sod all!
Who - me??

Well, this is an open forum, an open thread and I didn't realise that one had to be an 'expert' to sound off which I was not doing, merely expressing an opinion.

I thought that uneducated views on here, gave many of you a laugh in your lives, as mentioned in one post.

Suppression of views is a very dangerous road to venture down.

This is not North Korea

It is very difficult to recruit Spanish language teachers in particular which is good for those who are qualified.
Spanish is spoken fairly universally.

As for learning Modern Standard Chinese - I am all in favour. It is now on the curriculum in Australia but I am not sure about in the UK.

Who's talking to who here

Oh you mean the banking crash? Even the bankers didn't understand what they were doing, just that they were making loads of money.

You really are fond of sounding off on topics, about which you know sod all!

I am right! No need to add to that.

Not spending would definitely have caused recession.

Nobody saw it coming last time ww

Even HM asked why they did not!

jalima those factors will be measurable tho'

My own personal example is that about a third of all language teachers in the UK are EU nationals. Some have lived here for decades. Even if they are allowed to stay, there will be recruitment problems in the future, if the rules for non-EU citizens aren't changed

Even assuming you are right, there is no reason to believe it woul lead to recruitment problems. In fact it could make it easier as Spanish German and French nativ speakers find qualifying to teach becomes one of very few routes to living and working here.

However with decreasing emphasis on learning of European languages, perhaps you should be tthinking more of how Arabic and Chinese speaking teachers might be recruited.

I like to look at the back, the front and the bit inbetween of everything and anything
sorry Gracesgran I know this is supposed to be a serious thread but that made me lol