The cost of Brexit for us; the ordinary people

Corbyn is a closet brexiteer, so of course he is anxious for article 50 to be triggered asap. For once he's being honest, and I agree with him! I too am certain that we have more to offer to the world than Jam and Jerusalem (Tweeds!!!)

Those are physical exports. Our most valuable exports are services, such as financial services.

Just for information, the UK's top export categories in 2015 were:

Machines, engines, pumps: US$63.9 billion (13.9% of total exports)
Gems, precious metals: $53 billion (11.5%)
Vehicles: $50.7 billion (11%)
Pharmaceuticals: $36 billion (7.8%)
Oil: $33.2 billion (7.2%)
Electronic equipment: $29 billion (6.3%)
Aircraft, spacecraft: $18.9 billion (4.1%)
Medical, technical equipment: $18.4 billion (4%)
Organic chemicals: $14 billion (3%)
Plastics: $11.8 billion (2.6%)

This information came from worldstopexports.com who cite as the IMF as source. I have not checked it out. Even so, it seems we are not dependent on jam, Scotch and Harris Tweed. Exporting is tough and will doubtless become tougher but it would seem we are not the basket case sometimes presented.

PS: I do not know who is hounding who here but I have sympathy for anyone who has left for that reason. I only returned to Gransnet on 21 November after a long lay-off, triggered by a rude comment but, in truth, I had already decided that Gransnet was not for me.

Scaremongers ( not Gransnetters, who have no impact on these things) are doing harm by endless speculation on doom scenarios.I believe we have more to offer the world than jam or tweeds!
Roll on next March, triggure article 50 and get cracking on negotiations.This is btw, what Corbyn said in Summer ( not that I often agree with him.)

One definition of bureaucracy in the Chambers Dictionary is: 'any system of administration in which matters are hindered by excessive adherence to minor rules and procedures.

Indeed. A pejorative definition familiar to all of us who have been frustrated by 'minor rules and procedures'. However, it is one among a number of definitions and we'd do well to remember (as I am frequently being told) that dictionaries define words according to usage; they follow, they do not lead.

Bureaucracies are not inherently bad things, they are necessary for the administration of the rules and regulations of an organisation. Heavens, Belgium was without a government for two years; it didn't fall apart because its bureaucrats (civil service) kept it running on a day to day basis.

Rules and regulations are essential for the smooth running of any organisation, from club to a country (and a trading bloc). They arise from a need to clarify how members should behave and how procedures should be carried out. Without them chaos results, as anyone who has been involved in an enterprise which involves more than a few people must know.

The problem that I see with 'taking back control' is that we are no longer the leader in world trade that we were in the days of Empire. We are not in a position to dictate terms in new trade agreements as we have very little to offer, we may be nominally the 5th richest country in the world but in terms of purchasing power of individuals we rank much lower www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/dr-simon-duffy/welfare-myth-five-the-uk-_b_13296512.html Who is going to buy all the stuff our trading partners would wish us to buy?

As for exports, jam, Scotch and Harris Tweed aren't really going to hack it in terms of bringing in billions of pounds to enrich the UK. Universities are losing high earnings from overseas students because of the obsession with immigration, financial services (one of our highest earners) depend on EU passporting and there are strong signs that financial institutions are looking to relocate to the EU. And if we do continue trading with the EU at what cost will it be to exporters with the mountain of increased paperwork they will need to do?

In short, I think the scaremongers have a pretty good case.

And to those who keep on about the FTSE 100 let's not forget that we haven't actually left the EU yet and that, as granjura said (I missed you, gj ) many are just taking advantage of the current chaos.

hook, line and sinker ...

same for the NHS- run it down so that people will accept privatisation as the only valid option. Hence the offer to treat NHS patients in private hospitals, to create the need and the desire. All planned, very carefully indeed.

Of course they are granjura . It's all part of their game. Make things sound as bad as they possibly can, help to push up inflation. Buy cheap, sell expensive. Bob's yer uncle. The greedy baskets are even richer than they were before and us mere mortals pay the heavy price.

Indeed, and at the moment they are raking it in due to the whole debacle - they make billions on the chaos created.

The stockmarket is a giant gambling game played by those who never risk their own money. Effectively it is THEY that control the world!

I'd say that the 10000s and 10000s of documents related to individual treaties and markets in the world will lead to an awful lot more bureaucracy/ies - aka red (white and blue and every other colour) tape.

In that case Cunco ( the dictionary definition of bureauocracy) the EU certainly falls into that category.

Nothing it all- if it is a choice not 'forced' upon you by hounds and bullies.

Yes, Jalima ...... nothing tragic about leaving a forum ( even if it were true) is there?

I don't disagree that the future has some big challenges so why is our stock market as high as it is?

I know, FTSE 100 has a lot of international stocks buoyed by the fall in the Pound but FTSE 250 and FTSE 350 both look quite high too. One would have thought that, at very least, those hedge fund mangers who pumped their money into the Remain campaign would be shorting the UK like crazy. Low interest rates have boosted asset values everywhere but, in this global world, they can put their money where they like.

I don't know. Maybe, fund managers and their expert soothsayers know something we don't like it may never happen or, if it does, we will muddle through. Maybe they prefer the risk of Bexit to the risk of investing in European banks.

PS: One definition of bureaucracy in the Chambers Dictionary is: 'any system of administration in which matters are hindered by excessive adherence to minor rules and procedures.' I am sure somebody will be kind enough to tell me if this derived from the French.

More scaremongering:

www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/as-brexit-approaches-signs-of-a-gathering-economic-storm-for-britain/2016/12/13/21aeaae5-a857-4956-bdb6-f7bcb48636f8_story.html?utm_term=.b0ecdbaf721e

www.sundaypost.com/fp/1-industry-us_3339/

On the tablet again; hope the links work. They look alright in preview.

I suppose this doesn't matter either.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/dec/13/urgent-brexit-deal-needed-to-avert-banking-job-losses-peers-to-warn

Just scaremongering.

Just had nearly one month off Gransnet - and I am really sad to see some of my favourite posters have left due to your constant attacks.
Who's left - what have I missed?

Sad- tragic even.

No, someone leaving Gransnet is not tragic. As I have said before, the situation in Aleppo is tragic, as is Yemen.

Not what I read, roses.
Are you still on here? You must be bored out of your skull by now.

Not my idea Jess not a killer arguement or any other kind of one.I actually said that other countries may choose to follow our example, which in time, they still may.
What is all this about the mess we are in' , we are not in a mess at all,nothing doom laden has happened , no emergency budget etc etc.Firms are continuing to invest in the UK, the pound has come back up.
Austria and Italy voted the way they did because they didn't want the far right in control, not because they particularly want to stay in the EU.

So all those who voted to leave knew that the pound would drop dramatically in value... I wonder if they bought Euros before it dropped?
Amazing that the Leaves knew what would happen and didn't make a leap in the dark when even the financial experts weren't sure!

Killer argument roses - must have been a good idea because other countries might behave like lemmings. (even though, apparently, the lemmings didn't )

There are countries that have already done that, suzied.
Austria and Italy both voted the way they did because they knew the right would take them out of the EU.

What else could it be than a 'leap in the dark' when there was no plan, no indication whatsoever of the form Brexit would take or what the consequences might be, etc, etc.

A 'leap in the dark' was exactly what it was - and has nothing to do with 'intellectual high ground' but just plain simple obvious, common sense.

Or other countries might look at the mess that the U.K. is in, and decide they are better off in Europe.